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Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by ars on Thursday October 27, 2016 @05:18PM (#12810270)
This is completely pointless. They'll just add some form you have to sign before giving you service and that's about it.

After all, do you read and act on the privacy notifications other providers give you?

Does this at least require them to provider service irregardless of your consent to share data? If not, this is a pointless law that just makes it look like they did something.

Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by christianmunoz on Thursday October 27, 2016 @05:40PM (#12810497)
Copied this from another comment of mine on this post, but it answers part of your question. From the FCC fact sheet[0] on the decision:

> The Order prohibits “take-it-or-leave-it” offers, meaning that an ISP can’t refuse to serve customers who don’t consent to the use and sharing of their information for commercial purposes.

So at least they can't cut you off entirely if you don't consent/opt-in. The fact sheet also touches on the "pay for privacy" issue:

> Recognizing that so-called “pay for privacy” offerings raise unique considerations, the rules require heightened disclosure for plans that provide discounts or other incentives in exchange for a customer’s express affirmative consent to the use and sharing of their personal information. The Commission will determine on a case-by-case basis the legitimacy of programs that relate service price to privacy protections. Consumers should not be forced to choose between paying inflated prices and maintaining their privacy.

Not an outright ban on discounting service for opt'ing-in, but looks like they're leaning towards not allowing something like that.

[0] http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2016...

Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by nickff on Thursday October 27, 2016 @05:28PM (#12810382)
I think you are describing general problems with disclosure and consent regulations and common-law.

The regulators and legislators pursue and get credit for incremental actions, but there is no agent or body with accountability for overall impact. When regulators impose a new disclosure requirement, they often show that if a consumer reads the document, the individual will learn something; the problem is that when this document is page 53 of a 200 page disclosure, almost nobody reads it.

This issue was pointed out by Chief Justice Roberts when he said that he never read any of the prescription drug warnings that drug-producers have been required to provide (by courts and regulators).

Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by devindotcom on Thursday October 27, 2016 @05:34PM (#12810442)
You have to opt in and there can't be a penalty for opting out, the fact sheet says. That said, there may be a bonus for opting in — perks or whatnot. That will have to be settled separately, probably.
Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by metaphorm on Thursday October 27, 2016 @05:48PM (#12810566)
it's really hard for me to understand what the meaningful difference would be between penalty for opting out vs. bonus for opting in. don't those amount to the same thing, in practice?
Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by devindotcom on Thursday October 27, 2016 @05:56PM (#12810644)
heh pretty much yes, though I'm sure someone can think of times it would be different. and since penalties for opting out are not allowed, the ISPs will have to be very careful how they structure such bonuses - they would have to be perks totally separate from the service they provide is my guess.
Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by ncallaway on Thursday October 27, 2016 @06:00PM (#12810673)
It probably has to do with the advertised price.

They probably can't advertise service as $49.95, then add an additional $20 charge if you opt-in to the privacy plan.

They probably would need to at minimum advertise both prices in their marketing copy.

Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by initram on Thursday October 27, 2016 @06:27PM (#12810889)
Though inevitably the privacy one will be an asterisk and written in 3 point font in light gray text against a light gray background.
Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by gruez on Thursday October 27, 2016 @07:09PM (#12811253)
>then add an additional $20 charge if you opt-in to the privacy plan

probably not a viable option because a VPN offers complete privacy from the ISP, and only costs $5/month.

Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by NegativeK on Thursday October 27, 2016 @09:28PM (#12812217)
VPNs are completely out of the question for the vast majority of internet users, who the FCC is mainly concerned about protecting.
Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by gruez on Thursday October 27, 2016 @11:14PM (#12812742)
How so? They're easy to set up, especially with a compatible router.
Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by ncallaway on Friday October 28, 2016 @12:44AM (#12813159)
I mean... why is it hard for the majority of users to use linux?

Why is it hard for the majority of users to use a password manager?

Because most people on the planet are busy and don't give a damn.

Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by EdHominem on Sunday October 30, 2016 @04:02AM (#12828657)
Right, so it's not at all out of reach. You can configure your OS to use a VPN in under a minute, in my experience. Maybe five, if you were following directions.

It also takes a few minutes to change your smoke-detector batteries...

Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by bradleyankrom on Thursday October 27, 2016 @08:12PM (#12811676)
this is more or less the practice used at gas stations that offer different prices for cash and credit (framed as a "cash discount"); also, not dissimilar to the debate over employer/insurer "wellness plans", wherein the employee is forced to choose between surrendering private information or paying premiums that are often 2-4x+ more than what those who participate in the plan pay.
Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by jahewson on Thursday October 27, 2016 @05:57PM (#12810648)
Yes, the difference is just playing with words. Rewarding those who opt-in is materially equivalent to penalising those who opt-out. I don't think the FCC would stand for such shenanigans.
Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by Frogolocalypse on Thursday October 27, 2016 @10:02PM (#12812403)
From a purely commercial perspective, opting in allows the company to sell your data. You are, in effect, getting a cut of that revenue.

I'm not sure how you de-incentivise something like that.

Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by snoman on Thursday October 27, 2016 @05:54PM (#12810617)
No, because the status quo is to not share your information.
Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by rhizome on Thursday October 27, 2016 @06:30PM (#12810919)
I bet legally there's no difference and the dog won't hunt.
Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by jmcdiesel on Thursday October 27, 2016 @05:22PM (#12810312)
Well, thanks to sites like HN and Reddit, as soon as they drop some dumb stuff in the contract, it will be brought to the surface and informed people will at least KNOW... tahts a big thing
Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by TallGuyShort on Thursday October 27, 2016 @05:25PM (#12810358)
Not sure I'm as optimistic. Many long agreements include vague language that gives the author A LOT of leeway.

I'm more concerned about getting this fixed in healthcare. Recently had to get lawyers involved over a debt dispute for a bill that was never sent to insurance and that the hospital couldn't even verify because it came from a "partner" no one could contact. The chief argument against us: an agreement signed by my wife while in labor that placed all the responsibility for any bills, correct or not, on us with no recourse. I remember disputing it at the time but they insisted it was just a CYA form and they couldn't admit us without it.

Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by rmc on Friday October 28, 2016 @04:23AM (#12813988)
> This is completely pointless. They'll just add some form you have to sign before giving you service and that's about it. > > After all, do you read and act on the privacy notifications other providers give you?

So that's an interesting thing that's come up in the European Union, where the "constitution"/"bill of rights"[1] mandates "consent" for processing of personal data, namely does one of those click though I Agree things count as "informed consent".

Let's be honest, vast majority of people aren't actually consenting to things that are in the contract.

[1] For political reasons there is no "European Union Constitution". However there is the "Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union" which is sorta a "Bill of rights"

Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by teddythetwig on Friday October 28, 2016 @05:43AM (#12814368)
We are working on an Erasmus+ grant project with my company ProctorExam, and due to the nature of the project, we've also included a privacy lawyer and a representative from SURF(The Dutch institution that deals with all things education). From discussions that we had last week, an "I agree" button does NOT count as informed consent because they aren't actually presented with what they are consenting to.
Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by reitanqild on Friday October 28, 2016 @06:11AM (#12814491)
IANAL but I think there is also something about a reasonable chance to understand it, i.e. a wall of text + a Agree (to get anyway) shouldn't fly either.

Maybe someone who knows can confirm or deny this.

Also: personally I think current EULAs are stupid and "Contents hot" on coffee cups only exist because Americans like to sue each other.

I somewhat naively think that contracts between consumers and companies should be brought down to Creative Commons level.

Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by mperham on Thursday October 27, 2016 @05:29PM (#12810389)
Yep, exactly. Comcast says "we can share your data", you agree because they're literally the only usable Internet offering in cities all across America.
Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by wheelerwj on Thursday October 27, 2016 @05:34PM (#12810447)
Or worse, they will structure it like AT&T's project Hemisphere and find a way to provide the same insights without sharing the data specifically. And they will do it without any forms or notifications at all.
Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by driverdan on Friday October 28, 2016 @08:26AM (#12815057)
> After all, do you read and act on the privacy notifications other providers give you?

Yes. Never sign a contract without reading it.

Re:FCC Vote Means Internet Providers Need Permission to Shar... by alexbanks on Thursday October 27, 2016 @05:35PM (#12810452)
That was my thought. There'll just be a clause in the TOS that says "By accepting you give us the right to share your data" and that'll be that.