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Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by coldtea on Friday October 14, 2016 @08:47AM (#12707694)
>Does a more expensive pastry chef produce more expensive pastry? Or can a more experienced chef produce higher volume also? If the cost of the pastry increases with the cost of the chef, then it's entirely reasonable that there is a lower demand for more expensive pastry and therefore a lower demand for more expensive pastry chefs.

Yeah, god forbid the actual quality of the pastry comes into play, and that the restaurant/bakery/etc takes pride in its output.

Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by ctdonath on Friday October 14, 2016 @09:57AM (#12708072)
Few customers care that much about the quality of a pastry. A marginal decrease in quality won't result in an appreciable decrease in customers; likewise, a better quality pastry probably won't bring in enough money to cover the better chef.

At least in the USA. Here, most people equate "pastry" with something on the level of Dunkin Donuts, and are oblivious to the quality of something like an Austrian "konditorei".

The restaurant/bakery/etc may take pride in its output, but if the customers don't care in kind (a thing is worth what another is willing to pay for it) then it's unsustainable. Diminishing returns matter.

Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by kuschku on Friday October 14, 2016 @09:09AM (#12707793)
This is exactly the worst part about the kind of capitalism that’s been popular in recent decades.

It’s all about profits now, and pride in quality is gone completely.

In the US it’s already in all aspects of life, in Europe it has only caught the large companies yet, but it’s something we’ll have to fight globally.

Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by grinnbearit on Friday October 14, 2016 @09:19AM (#12707850)
Profits come from satisfying people's values [1], if more "higher quality" doesn't lead to more profits, it isn't valued.

As an aside, I'd be skeptical of Artists who produce "Inspiring work" which refuse to find any takers.

[1] negative externalities aside

Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by coldtea on Friday October 14, 2016 @09:30AM (#12707905)
>Profits come from satisfying people's values

Even bigger profits come from selling crap to people.

Especially if you help build and sustain a whole culture that teaches them to have low expectations from what they buy, lure them with BS ads that tout unsubstantial products to high heavens, etc...

>As an aside, I'd be skeptical of Artists who produce "Inspiring work" which refuse to find any takers.

So like van Gogh who died penniless?

Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by aantix on Friday October 14, 2016 @09:58AM (#12708080)
>Even bigger profits come from selling crap to people.

Apple sells a premium product and has a higher standard of quality than their competitors. Their products are priced accordingly.

They sit on the largest pile of cash out of any company in the U.S.

Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by coldtea on Friday October 14, 2016 @10:09AM (#12708145)
Don't necessarily disagree (although Apple makes some crap too of course, generally the take pride in their products and try to do the right thing even if it hurts their volume sales or margins).

And they might even prove that putting something good out matters -- like several other companies do.

But the general mode of production in 90% of the industry is not Apple (which always catered to the more expensive "high end" of the market).

It's companies selling half-arsed products or knowingly bad products (like tons of crappy food stuff), even when they have tons of margin available to produce something better.

Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by grinnbearit on Friday October 14, 2016 @12:12PM (#12709049)
One man's "crap" is another's fine dining.

I believe values are subjective and we choose what we value with our wallets.

> teaches them to have low expectations from what they buy

Do you not think that this is a paternalistic view of the world? What makes your opinion on what's "good" better than mine or anyone else's?

> So like van Gogh who died penniless?

I'd bet that there are several artists who died penniless who aren't as well remembered, skepticism is not the same as condemnation.

Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by coldtea on Friday October 14, 2016 @11:00PM (#12712535)
>One man's "crap" is another's fine dining.

And some crap, everybody agrees it's crap.

This is not about McDonalds vs Mortons.

It's about the Ford Pintos or Dell Dittys.

Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by merpnderp on Friday October 14, 2016 @09:14AM (#12707817)
You have to fight people's acceptance of slightly lower quality if it means slightly lower prices? Maybe we can call it the Global War on Mediocrity? Like other global wars, it will result in a massive increase in mediocrity.

BTW when has capitalism not been about profits?

Re:Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising? by coldtea on Friday October 14, 2016 @09:32AM (#12707918)
>BTW when has capitalism not been about profits?

At the era when industrialists took pride in their creations.

E.g. to the point to refuse to put out something that they know is subpar or to sweat the details beyond what the ignorant layman will immediately appreciate -- even if those things means reduced profit margins.

Of course that presupposes companies that listen to people and their vision, not shareholders screaming to maximize value.

The current attitude that its all about the profits is why we can't have nice things...