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Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by pmoriarty on Sunday October 02, 2016 @06:41PM (#12624659)
You say uMatrix is "somewhat more usable than NoScript, insofar as it usually allows Javascript on the local site by default, while automatically blocking JS on third-party domains"

But that's exactly the default I do not want. One of the main reasons I use NoScript in the first place is to protect against Javascript vulnerabilities. If the default is to enable Javascript, that defeats that protection.

Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by unethical_ban on Monday October 03, 2016 @12:04AM (#12625472)
Security is a sliding scale. I could stay home all day and wer big pads with sirens on saying "DONT TOUCH ME", but I choose to drive a car at 70mph, walk along-side busy roads and load 1st party JS from sites.

My rationale is that I've chosen to go to a site, and most JS dangers are served from ad networks and trackers. Not typically from the site itself.

Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by blowski on Monday October 03, 2016 @04:07AM (#12625972)
I let JavaScript run, but not by default, so it's like "before getting in someone else's car for the first time, I check the brakes work before going 70mph".

Of course, as long as we don't try to force our preferences on each other, we can both browse the web however we like.

Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by ryuuchin on Sunday October 02, 2016 @07:50PM (#12624869)
You can change this behavior in both NoScript and uMatrix. In uMatrix all you have to do is disable first party scripts in the global (*) profile. NoScript defaults to the opposite (don't allow any scripts) but the behavior can be changed to allow first party scripts by default.
Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by Houshalter on Monday October 03, 2016 @03:18AM (#12625866)
How do I disable scripts for just one site? I tried to use uMatrix once as it was suggested as the alternative of noscript for chrome. I just wanted to get rid of those annoying anti-adblock popups on wired.com. However every setting I tried on the drop down menu failed to block javascript, or just blocked all content on the domain wired.com. I tried going deeper into the settings but I found the user interface confusing and nothing was labelled. It's definitely not a convenient alternative for noscript/javascript blocking. Even if it may be possible to achieve that with it.
Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by anc84 on Monday October 03, 2016 @05:42AM (#12626211)
Make the script column for the host you want to block red/blue. Then make sure to save if it worked as intended.
Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by gorhill on Monday October 03, 2016 @12:10AM (#12625480)
Other default settings in uMatrix:

uMatrix comes with many hosts files enabled[1], so even if working in allow-all/block-exceptionally, most trackers/ads and whatnot will still be blocked.

There is no pre-whitelisted (aka "trusted") 3rd-party hostnames in uMatrix, that will be for you to decide.

The default in uMatrix, in full view in the popup panel, can be changed with a few clicks from the main popup panel, and you can also remove all the default whitelisted hostnames in NoScript.

[1] entries are translated into `* hostname * block`.

Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by Dylan16807 on Sunday October 02, 2016 @06:42PM (#12624662)
You can toggle it on both extensions.
Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by copperx on Sunday October 02, 2016 @09:07PM (#12625072)
How much of the 2016 Web is usable without JS?
Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by hackuser on Monday October 03, 2016 @12:05AM (#12625475)
It depends what you do on the web. To use web applications, obviously you need JavaScript. To read text, you generally don't. Also, even when you do need JavaScript, you generally need it from the original host and maybe one other (e.g., googleapis.com); you don't need it from the analytics and advertising hosts, for example.

Buying things with security add-ons installed sometimes can be tricky: When you click 'buy', the host site sometimes contacts destinations that were previously unknown to your browser (payment processors, etc.), meaning you wouldn't know to enable them. You may hesitate to reconfigure NoScript/uMatrix and reload because you don't know if you are making multiple payments or placing multiple orders.

On the positive side, uMatrix and NoScript can remember what you enabled to get that page working, so you configure them the first time you visit the site and then forget it. NoScript's configurations are less granular, however, which may discourage permanently allowing some things:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12624628

(But NoScript has many more security features:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12624596 )

Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by pmlnr on Monday October 03, 2016 @07:48AM (#12626660)
> To read text, you generally don't.

This is becoming less and less true unfortunately, thanks to stupidly designed (eg: not progressively designed ) JS frameworks.

Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by pmontra on Monday October 03, 2016 @03:06AM (#12625838)
I'm using NoScript and I temporarily enable JS on sites.

Usually sites work well enough by enabling 1st party JS and sometimes not even all of them. I lose all the code from tracking and monitoring services, which I really don't care about. I gain a much faster browsing experience.

Then there are sites with CDNs, and I have to enable them to see some content. Or Disqus comments, must enable to read them. Then there are some sites that are like a puzzle and I can't understand what to enable. I either give up (lose-lose) or read them in a browser I use for that kind of sites (I lose, they win). Then there are sites with content embedded in the JavaScript (I really mean in the script, not loaded by the script) or in some invisible element that only JS can make visible. Forbes is one of them and the one I hate most. I did a short script to deobfuscate the content at a Forbes URL and display it in a brower.

By using NoScript I appreciate how useless is JavaScript on some sites: there is no reason not to serve basic content (text and most of the images) directly and use JS only to enhance it. Examples: to add comments, to zoom into images, to load the next article - which has it's own URL anyway.

Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by actsasbuffoon on Sunday October 02, 2016 @09:31PM (#12625142)
A pretty good amount. For instance, HN is barely degraded at all. Voting causes a full page refresh, but that's about it.

Some news organizations implement their paywalls with JS. It gets rid of a lot of annoying ads and scroll-behavior modifications. It actually makes some sites subjectively better.

Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by JoshTriplett on Sunday October 02, 2016 @09:45PM (#12625173)
> For instance, HN is barely degraded at all.

HN isn't the 2016 web at all. Not that you fundamentally need JavaScript, but HN's HTML hearkens back to the pre-CSS table-driven web.

Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by nickpsecurity on Sunday October 02, 2016 @11:26PM (#12625401)
Most of the time you just enable the scripts with domain name and "cdn" in them. Sometimes, it's trial and error to find the fight combo but I usually get it in first guesses. I've found that the sites that were too much ttouble I just skip, momentarily irritated I didnt see the content, and then forget about that site. I can't say Ive lost anything major boycotting the worst offenders.
Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by zerognowl on Monday October 03, 2016 @09:55AM (#12627432)
> HN isn't the 2016 web at all.

Yes but when visiting a website with JS turned off, the site can still be progressively enhanced similar to how an electric stairs still works when the power is switched off. Users of the stairs still get to climb it, but now they have to put in extra effort.

Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by JoshTriplett on Monday October 03, 2016 @11:35AM (#12628234)
> Yes but when visiting a website with JS turned off, the site can still be progressively enhanced similar to how an electric stairs still works when the power is switched off.

It can, but sites often don't test that path (if they develop it at all), because it only applies to people who intentionally disable JavaScript.

Once upon a time, screen readers and similar accessibility software didn't work well with JavaScript, so better sites would pay attention to that case for accessibility. However, screen readers work fine with standard browsers and JavaScript now, which makes the "JavaScript disabled" case an incredibly tiny fraction of web users. (In fact, Mozilla found a few years ago that there were far more users with JavaScript accidentally disabled than people who actually wanted it disabled.) So, handling disabled JavaScript by just saying "you seem to have disabled JavaScript; you should fix that" really does seem appropriate for the proportional amount of time worth spending on that tiny subset of users.

That said, know your target audience. If you're building a mainstream consumer product, the proportional amount of time worth spending on running with JavaScript disabled rounds to zero. If you're building a product catering to a smaller subset of users, and you expect people with JavaScript disabled to represent a much larger fraction of your potential users, by all means take the extra development time to make that case work well.

Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by vacri on Sunday October 02, 2016 @09:48PM (#12625184)
Enabling first-party scripts makes most of it usable, but not all. Disabling first-part scripts means probably about 50% is still useful. The internet seems so much 'quieter' with NoScript installed...
Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by clarry on Monday October 03, 2016 @06:48AM (#12626398)
A lot of it is unusable with JS, and progressively getting worse.
Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by stephengillie on Sunday October 02, 2016 @07:38PM (#12624832)
A more useful alternative may be disabling JavaScript globally, and maintaining a clearlist of sites allowed to run it.

Or combine this with uMatrix, giving yourself a global blocklist with 3rd party granularity on the sites you do clearlist.

Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by stephengillie on Monday October 03, 2016 @07:17AM (#12626518)
Was this comment really so unhelpful as to merit a downvote?
Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by coldtea on Monday October 03, 2016 @12:31AM (#12625525)
>One of the main reasons I use NoScript in the first place is to protect against Javascript vulnerabilities

All 0 of them?

Re:NoScript is harmful and promotes malware by SquareWheel on Monday October 03, 2016 @07:19AM (#12626527)
You've received downvotes, but you're not wrong. Javascript security used to be a concern, but that's been effectively eliminated with modern browser design.

Code is sandboxed, processes are isolated, OS-level security is used on top of that. The few CVEs that show up are reported quickly via browser bounties or in-house testing. People claim bounties are ineffective, but how many exploits have we really seen emerge from "black markets" or other sources?

I ran without JS for a few years and then realized it was making my online experience more miserable than it needed to be. I can't remember the last time I actually saw a computer "infected" just from visiting a website, and not through social engineering. Can you?

The bottom line is that the margin for being compromised via JS is so small that it might as well not exist. If you disable it because privacy or surveillance or whatever else, that's your prerogative. But the security issue is completely overstated and largely misinformed.