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Re:Elon Musk's Ticket to Nowhere by WheelsAtLarge on Wednesday September 28, 2016 @08:09PM (#12602360)
Hold on a sec. This article basically says that we need to wait until a plan makes sense. Well a trip to Mars will never make sense financially and it's easy to find fault in all plans. Planning a trip to the Mojave desert makes better sense. It's cheaper, no one will die and we know there's life there.

A trip to Mars is a stretch goal that we need to start as a species. We know that our lifetime as a species is limited on earth so the sooner we start figuring out how to get off the planet the better. Yes, we might fail but then we'll have to try again and again.

Musk has made himself the spokesman for that task. No one else seems to want the job. Yes, he's a dreamer and might be overselling the task but that's what we need. We need to start. I can tell you that if we never try it will never happen.

My hope is that he becomes so rich that he owns all of Mar's resources. Yes, he'll own them for a bit but it means mankind has made a large step forward. Go Musk!

Re:Elon Musk's Ticket to Nowhere by RivieraKid on Saturday October 01, 2016 @03:38PM (#12619538)
Mars is like Antarctica or Sahara, but much worse, why would people want to live their lives there? I can understand scientists or perhaps adventurers living there for a 2 year shift. But why would anyone want to spend time there if it's a worse place to live than Earth in almost every regard?

By the way, I'm a big SpaceX fan and I hope there will be an outpost on Mars, but a self-sustaining city is just unrealistic, sadly.

Re:Elon Musk's Ticket to Nowhere by WheelsAtLarge on Saturday October 01, 2016 @04:17PM (#12619699)
I see your point. It's not necessarily a matter of living there. People would hate it and it's unrealistic with current technology. Right now, it's a matter of developing the technology to be able to travel and live outside our planet. We're really talking about technology that will take hundreds of years to develop - if at all.

If it's ever going to happen we need to move forward. Going to the moon was great but we've stalled since then.

We talk about jobs ending. We'll space research and development is a fertile ground for new jobs.

Re:Elon Musk's Ticket to Nowhere by RivieraKid on Saturday October 01, 2016 @04:24PM (#12619721)
Yeah, I'm a big supporter of the Mars plan, it's just that I can't convince myself that a big colony is possible any time soon.
Re:Elon Musk's Ticket to Nowhere by sp527 on Sunday October 02, 2016 @12:46AM (#12621075)
I had the same reaction and then started looking into the viability of terraforming Mars. I'd hardly call any of it conclusive, but the challenges and proposed solutions are endlessly fascinating. Highly recommended nerd deep dive.
Re:Elon Musk's Ticket to Nowhere by xbmcuser on Sunday October 02, 2016 @12:41AM (#12621065)
With the way things are going with climate change etc our world will become a harsher place to live in. And all tech that helps us live and colonise Mars will also help us survive on Earth.
Re:Elon Musk's Ticket to Nowhere by parenthephobia on Saturday October 01, 2016 @04:41PM (#12619784)
> But why would anyone want to spend time there if it's a worse place to live than Earth in almost every regard?

People who don't agree with you about it being a worse place to live than Earth in almost every regard might want to live there. I don't think Mars is a "worse" place to live than Earth in general, though it's certainly more challenging to live there. On Earth, humans have lived everywhere it's possible to live, not just where it was easy.

Antarctica was uninhabited until comparatively recently not because it isn't a nice place to live, but because without modern technology it's basically impossible to live there. The Sahara has been inhabited for thousands of years.

The Andes and Tibet are places which are so hard for humans to live in that the populations there have genetic adaptations to help them survive the low-oxygen environment. I mention that not to suggest that Martians might evolve the ability to breathe Martian are, but that humans haven't allowed mere inhospitability to stop them living in a place: history tells us that if it's possible to live somewhere, people will live there.

Re:Elon Musk's Ticket to Nowhere by RivieraKid on Saturday October 01, 2016 @05:27PM (#12619963)
I certainly hope there will be a lot of (rich) people who'd find life on Mars appealing, but I'm extremely sceptical there will be many people like that.

Depends which parts of Sahara, some are certainly livable.

Mars is a lifeless desert and you'd be mostly stuck inside anyway to avoid radiation. But maybe the goal of building a self-sustaining colony would give the people a clear purpose that would offset the discomfort.

Re:Elon Musk's Ticket to Nowhere by artursapek on Saturday October 01, 2016 @02:59PM (#12619356)
Ownership of resources/land on another planet is an interesting legal question I've never considered. If SpaceX colonizes Mars first, can they claim the entire planet is theirs? Under whose jurisdiction does Mars lie?
Re:Elon Musk's Ticket to Nowhere by parenthephobia on Saturday October 01, 2016 @04:26PM (#12619730)
Under the terms of the Outer Space Treaty, outer space - including Mars - is under no jurisdiction, but objects and people launched into space are under the jurisdiction of the country they launched from.

The OST prohibits a signatory to the treaty from claiming any celestial body. In practical terms, a base on Mars would, unless it was exclusively built with components launched from the same country, be a patchwork of jurisdictions. This is in fact the situation with the ISS, which is (probably) the only place in the Universe where the territories of USA, Canada, Japan, Russia and Europe are only seconds apart.

Of course there is always the possibility of a New Boston Tea Party. International convention is that a seceding state isn't bound by the treaties of the original state, so if a Martian government were recognized by Earth's governments they could try to claim Mars.

The more practical concern is what it would mean for SpaceX to "claim Mars". I could claim Mars right now, but it wouldn't benefit me at all unless my claim was respected by other states. If the US, or anyone else, could steamroll in and take control of a SpaceX-founded colony that was purporting to be independent, then the claim would be worthless.

Re:Elon Musk's Ticket to Nowhere by merb on Saturday October 01, 2016 @03:09PM (#12619395)
Outerspace is not under any law, that's how some secret services tried to be legal. I can remember a comment from one of my country (germany)'s spokesman of the bnd gave a stupid comment that if they share data over satellite, it's legal since actually the space is not within the law of any country. Can't find it tough at least not in english.
Re:Elon Musk's Ticket to Nowhere by greglindahl on Saturday October 01, 2016 @04:02PM (#12619646)
This is the law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty

And no, you don't get to claim the entire planet by planting the first colony.