Maybe encryption-wise but function-wise it is miles ahead of both WA and signal. There are bots, stickers, live preview of gifs and (YouTube) movies, an audio player built in, an API, real desktop clients (yes I understand that breaks e2e encryption but it's nice when my phone battery is dead I can still send people messages), channels, cloud storage. Still it feels faster than WA. WA is a (very) local minimum and moves very slowly, we can do much better as users.

Could you elaborate? I am using Telegram not because of privacy concerns but because of the desktop and tablet clients. I had absolutely no issues so far.

Telegram's weak points, as far as I can tell:

* chats not end-to-end encrypted by default (only secure chats), so clear text is on their servers

* group chats can't be secure chats

* the crypto is somewhat unconventional. While the developers had their reasons (constraints of mobile platforms), and no exploit has been found so far, AFAIK, any self-rolled crypto is a bit of a red flag to cryptographers.

* I have no reason to distrust Pavel Durov or his motives, but I am somewhat skeptical of services based in Russia (also, just to be clear, of services based in the USA or other five eyes).

To me, Wire might be the best of both worlds (as I've said in another post in this thread, and BTW I am not connected to them in any way):

Signal protocol; based in Switzerland; smartphone, desktop and web client; free; text and voice chat and group chat; open source (GPLv3, and on github); signup with phone number or email.

Wire does not use Signal Protocol. They use a protocol of their own devising that we do not recommend.

https://github.com/wireapp/wire#proteuscryptobox for info on Proteus/Cryptobox that Wire uses.

hey moxie! thanks for your work on signal

Telegram is not based in Russia. Pavel Durov fled the country and is currently operating Telegram from Germany.

It's not end-to-end encrypted, so telegram still has access to all your messages and can turn over data in the case of a subpoena or if they just feel like it.

the desktop client was not encrypted at all last i checked, only the mobile client.

signal is e2e encrypted, it's in a completely different ballpark