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Re:iTunes will never work well by rtpg on Monday September 19, 2016 @12:40AM (#12528964)
want to eject a disk? drag it to the trash can...?

I think Apple was good at keeping things consistent across apps, but the chosen metaphors were sometimes just as confusing (if worse) than the blessed windows one.

Not that it matters, everything is learned behaviour anyways. Consistency is already a great achievement.

Re:iTunes will never work well by rsfinn on Monday September 19, 2016 @11:44AM (#12532288)
> want to eject a disk? drag it to the trash can...?

This is the appendix of the Mac UI.

Gather round, kids, and listen to Grandpa tell you a story of the days when Macs had only one floppy disk drive. When you wanted to copy a file from one disk to another, you had to (physically) eject the first disk to insert the second one, but the first disk volume was still logically mounted so you could use it as a source or destination. So the volume's icon remained on the desktop, only dimmed so you knew the disk wasn't physically present.

So you physically eject a disk by selecting it and pressing Command-E (remember, only one mouse button), but how do you get rid of the ghost icon afterwards? Same way you get rid of anything -- you drag it to the trash.

From there it's an obvious shortcut to combining the two operations by dragging a "live" icon to the trash to both eject it and remove its icon in one step. (Well, obvious in 1985, anyway.)

Now that we can right-click the icon to eject the volume and have forgotten the origins of the drag-to-trash gesture, it may seem nonsensical, but those of us who were there at the beginning were grateful for the shortcut. (Also, get off my lawn.)

Re:iTunes will never work well by Dain42 on Monday September 19, 2016 @01:07AM (#12529084)
> want to eject a disk? drag it to the trash can...?

That was just something that was there forever, basically since 1984. It was part of the Macintosh vernacular. You could also right-click to eject.

Re:iTunes will never work well by rtpg on Monday September 19, 2016 @03:18AM (#12529562)
That's kind of my point. It's all learned vernacular, so having inately understandable behaviour isn't as important as being consistent.

Though someone's saying that dragging the ion turns it into the eject symbol, which I hadn't noticed until now but is more reasonable.

Re:iTunes will never work well by wvenable on Monday September 19, 2016 @01:16AM (#12529122)
Right-click? On a mouse with one button?
Re:iTunes will never work well by Animats on Monday September 19, 2016 @03:07AM (#12529527)
"The Macintosh has a multi-button mouse, but the buttons are on the keyboard".
Re:iTunes will never work well by kagamine on Monday September 19, 2016 @01:53AM (#12529257)
You had t press a modifier key to right click, but 2 button mouses have been sold with macs since 10.2 at least, and 10.2 was available in 2001/2.
Re:iTunes will never work well by masklinn on Monday September 19, 2016 @02:12AM (#12529338)
> You had t press a modifier key to right click

Control, which still works incidentally.

Re:iTunes will never work well by rangibaby on Monday September 19, 2016 @04:09AM (#12529739)
You still need to enable right click from a menu for Apple-brand mice and trackpads. Otherwise ctrl+click is still the only way
Re:iTunes will never work well by masklinn on Monday September 19, 2016 @04:27AM (#12529813)
IIRC for trackpads at least it's been enabled by default for some time (though I believe the default gesture is a double-tap rather than a tap in the bottom-right corner).
Re:iTunes will never work well by Bartweiss on Monday September 19, 2016 @10:39AM (#12531751)
But it's been considered a terrible design choice since 1984. It's not one of those things that we decided against long after it was put in place, Unix philosophy types were complaining about the inconsistency of that choice the day it came out.
Re:iTunes will never work well by niccaluim on Monday September 19, 2016 @02:42AM (#12529444)
Contextual menus weren't added until Mac OS 8 or thereabouts. In all prior versions you either dragged to the Trash or used an item in the menubar.
Re:iTunes will never work well by ISL on Monday September 19, 2016 @01:13AM (#12529108)
if there was a two-button mouse....
Re:iTunes will never work well by fixmycode on Monday September 19, 2016 @02:04AM (#12529304)
the trash can turns into the eject symbol if you start to drag an ejectable volume
Re:iTunes will never work well by majewsky on Monday September 19, 2016 @04:35AM (#12529844)
1. Not very discoverable if your dock is set to auto-hide.

2. On a large screen, this action (the trash can transformation) can happen very far away from the place you're looking at, which means that you will miss it. This is a general gripe of mine with Mac OS: It will regularly place popup dialogs on seemingly random screens. I have three active screens, and when I'm looking at the left screen, the right screen is so far outside my FOV that I will literally not notice dialogs popping up there.

Re:iTunes will never work well by the_other on Monday September 19, 2016 @06:09AM (#12530170)
If you can set your dock to auto-hide, and run three parallel screens, you probably don't need any of the other assistance you're looking for.
Re:iTunes will never work well by creshal on Monday September 19, 2016 @06:58AM (#12530348)
Why? Are people only allowed to have multiple screens after passing some OSX geek initiation rite?
Re:iTunes will never work well by the_other on Monday September 19, 2016 @07:45AM (#12530569)
Sure, people can have as many screens as they can manage. I still think it's reasonable to assume that if you know how to configure a system to spread your desktop over three screens and to hide the widget that gives you the feedback/discoverability then you can use the skills that got you there to get you out of your predicament.

If your argument is that the dock is the wrong place for that feedback because it can be hidden, or that the disc/drive icons should always be closer to the dock, then we have a table laid for a good discussion.

Re:iTunes will never work well by Bartweiss on Monday September 19, 2016 @10:50AM (#12531838)
I would argue that OS X still has bad multi-screen support because I shouldn't have to hunt for where dialog boxes and status updates have been placed. Yes, I'm capable of doing so, but that doesn't mean I want to.

Broadly, I object to the inconsistency and high astonishment factor more than any specific choice. For example:

- If a program has dialog boxes open (e.g. a 'find' box), they maintain relative position as you drag the main window across screens. Which, if you move to a smaller screen, puts them in offscreen no-man's-land where they can't actually be used or closed.

- Popups should consistently happen on either the active screen, or the active/furthest-forward window of the spawning program. As is, they unpredictably follow either rule, or borrow from the next bullet:

- Spotlight should appear somewhere sane and predictable. Either the same every time, or over my active window, or over my mouse cursor. Instead, it appears on the window which my Dock has most recently minimized to. My hidden Dock, which I have to use the mouse to locate/move. And then let re-minimize, because OS X doesn't update Spotlight's target when it appears but when it goes away. And which can automatically move itself to different screens without my help, based on where I open programs. Again, invisibly because it's hidden.

- And Spotlight's screen is also the screen where it will open new programs (a good decision). So I can't just look for it, I have to revert to the mouse to move either Dock or program to the screen I've been attempting to use this entire time.

So rambling aside, I think OS X actively causes time-consuming problems for multi-monitor users. I resent that because it's a pain even if I memorize the rules and how to solve the problems.

In particular, I object to tying large swathes of behavior to the Dock, since it's location/contents are both invisible and unpredictable for many users.

Re:iTunes will never work well by the_other on Thursday September 22, 2016 @01:11PM (#12558357)
Wow. So many. I didn't know most of those due to using my machine a different way. I agree with your overall point that multi-screen use needs work.