Re:WriteWith : Everybody point and laugh
by pg on Friday April 13, 2007 @12:47PM
(#12610)
One of the rules people who understand web startups all agree on is that you should launch early-- as soon as you have even a minimal core of working features. As Reid Hoffman said, "if you're not embarrassed by your first release, you launched too late."
In a domain where the correct thing to do is launch something easy to make fun of, it's easy to sound clever by making fun of things that have just launched. I wonder if the anonymous geniuses behind uncov ever consciously thought about that.
Re:WriteWith : Everybody point and laugh
by phil on Saturday April 14, 2007 @12:12AM
(#12823)
I think it's actually not a bad review of us if you filter the anger out. The only part of their post that actually stung was the bit about spellcheck, because it's not done. I wanted to have it finished for launch, but we felt it wasn't worth delaying for. But, we've rolled out two new versions so far today and we're gonna keep iterating fast.
The post also reminds me of this classic Kathy Sierra graphic: http://headrush.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/loveandhate_1.jpg
These guys are talking about how much we suck, and around the world a blogger in France said "je dois dire que je suis seduis par la legerete du systeme." My French is poor, but I'm pretty sure that's "I must say I was seduced by the system's simplicity." This beats a collective shrug any day.
Anyway, even if they ARE utterly impossible to please, they're still telling you outright what you can improve. And an extreme view can sometimes help to put everything else in perspective.
Re:WriteWith : Everybody point and laugh
by Harj on Friday April 13, 2007 @10:51AM
(#12565)
i think it's quite cute how people who lack the balls to do their own startups feel so qualified to comment on the people that do.
still criticism is more useful than congratulations and when the writewith guys make this a massive success, i'm sure they'll buy this guy a drink. or not.
Re:WriteWith : Everybody point and laugh
by jmw on Friday April 13, 2007 @08:47PM
(#12786)
As someone who'd like to think of himself as a decent hacker, I usually think criticism is a good thing. I don't however, enjoy criticism when it's combined with insults to attract more attention.
I know and like the WriteWith developers, so I'm not really interested in spending time defending a team I have confidence in and a product that will figure itself out with time. I haven't had any long discussions about where they're aiming - but they're smart guys who work damn hard, so I'm sure we'll see new things out of them.
I would however, enjoy helping to filter some of the lower quality posts here on news.ycombinator.com - so let's take a look at the quality of the people behind uncov.com (based on 5 minutes worth of googling). A couple of their articles have made it to news.ycombinator.com in the past few days - and I haven't particularly enjoyed any of them when compared to the rest of the articles posted.
'whois uncov.com - returns "Kyle Shank" with DNS pointing to www.shanksoft.com/
shanksoft.com reports a 404
You can do your own googles for "Kyle Shank", but what's more important to me is the quality of the critic - ie, what software he's written in the past.
A google for "shanksoft.com" returns some old shareware "ASPXEdit" that I would assume does what it should, and is a basic ASP editor. There wasn't an updated version on any of the sites I checked, and I'm assuming this was a failed attempt at "making something people want".
It also returned what appears to have been an attempt my the same "group/person" at Shanksoft to make an original p2p client, "Shankster". Also couldn't find a version, but it seemed like yet-another-gnutella client, and never really got much traction.
Point of the story - uncov's team (at least just this one) doesn't seem to be anything substantial, but more some college aged wannabes (aren't we all?) who aren't actually out there doing it themselves.
In hindsight - this comment wasn't really worth my time. The research just proved what I thought before - and Harj's comment.
Re:WriteWith : Everybody point and laugh
by jamiequint on Saturday April 14, 2007 @04:59AM
(#12852)
Kyle Shank is launching a startup called Persai right now, it should be interesting to see where that goes...
"Persai is a startup that seeks to apply advanced machine learning techniques to content and advertising. We are using Amazon's web services to build a scalable architecture that will learn from consumer interests over time and match them with content crawled from around the web. The idea behind Persai is that you will have an active agent crawling the web looking for content that is relevant to you and only you. Every link we recommend will be something you want to read. We are zigging to social news' zag where popularity trumps relevance to the individual."
Re:WriteWith : Everybody point and laugh
by dpapathanasiou on Friday April 13, 2007 @07:54AM
(#12528)
I don't understand the point of the uncov blog, except as a place for juvenile "haters" (is that expression mainstream yet?) to vent their frustrations.
If a web service is ill-conceived, useless, etc. it will die of its own accord.
I'd be willing to wager, though, that something they lambaste will wind up as a huge success, and they'll look (even more) ridiculous.
Re:WriteWith : Everybody point and laugh
by hello_moto on Friday April 13, 2007 @11:18AM
(#12573)
Well we have Techcrunch and GigaOm already. What wasn't there yet was a blog like Uncov. I'll give you +1 because I agree with your last statement that one of these startups will be successful. But out of x YComb startups, there will be plenty to go down.
Re:WriteWith : Everybody point and laugh
by hello_moto on Friday April 13, 2007 @01:24PM
(#12629)
That maybe because Uncov people (or person?) have technical background. Even though TC and GO did post negative reviews, usually they're not that striking. But TC and GO mostly hyped things up with weak reasoning.
I remember back then when I was caught by the hype of web 2.0, I read TC review about this website called Zooomr. TC said it's like "Flickr on steroid". What happened to Zooomr now? still in beta and seems inactive. Have you seen Zooomr UI? not so good.. it's just Flickr with patches here and there, mashup here and there. I wonder how relevant TC reviews are. Even some of my friends these days have moved on and tagged TC as irrelevant and biased
Re:WriteWith : Everybody point and laugh
by tocomment on Friday April 13, 2007 @11:48AM
(#12583)
He does have some good points though. I do find myself wondering if all the good web application ideas have been done? I mean there must be a finite amount of useful things to put on the internet. I'd like to get everyone's thoughts on that, it's a worry I have.
And, "things to put on the internet" isn't that right way to think of it. Think of: "things to do with people and information". It may as well be infinite.
Re:WriteWith : Everybody point and laugh
by ido on Friday April 13, 2007 @12:25PM
(#12601)
There are a ton of great web applications that doesn't exist yet - you can't think of any because they're not there yet (and having original ideas is difficult)
In a domain where the correct thing to do is launch something easy to make fun of, it's easy to sound clever by making fun of things that have just launched. I wonder if the anonymous geniuses behind uncov ever consciously thought about that.
The post also reminds me of this classic Kathy Sierra graphic: http://headrush.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/loveandhate_1.jpg These guys are talking about how much we suck, and around the world a blogger in France said "je dois dire que je suis seduis par la legerete du systeme." My French is poor, but I'm pretty sure that's "I must say I was seduced by the system's simplicity." This beats a collective shrug any day.
If you can manage to satisfy even these guys, you're in good shape.
That assumes they're being objective; so far, it looks like jealousy or other frustrations manifesting themselves.
It'll be interesting to see whether or not they do like anything in future.
"To get a good review from uncov, you really have to earn it."
K said something relevant a while back: http://www.roadtoforbes.com/index.php/ksblog/why-the-80-20-rule-doesnt-always-work/
Anyway, even if they ARE utterly impossible to please, they're still telling you outright what you can improve. And an extreme view can sometimes help to put everything else in perspective.
still criticism is more useful than congratulations and when the writewith guys make this a massive success, i'm sure they'll buy this guy a drink. or not.
I know and like the WriteWith developers, so I'm not really interested in spending time defending a team I have confidence in and a product that will figure itself out with time. I haven't had any long discussions about where they're aiming - but they're smart guys who work damn hard, so I'm sure we'll see new things out of them.
I would however, enjoy helping to filter some of the lower quality posts here on news.ycombinator.com - so let's take a look at the quality of the people behind uncov.com (based on 5 minutes worth of googling). A couple of their articles have made it to news.ycombinator.com in the past few days - and I haven't particularly enjoyed any of them when compared to the rest of the articles posted.
'whois uncov.com - returns "Kyle Shank" with DNS pointing to www.shanksoft.com/
shanksoft.com reports a 404
You can do your own googles for "Kyle Shank", but what's more important to me is the quality of the critic - ie, what software he's written in the past.
A google for "shanksoft.com" returns some old shareware "ASPXEdit" that I would assume does what it should, and is a basic ASP editor. There wasn't an updated version on any of the sites I checked, and I'm assuming this was a failed attempt at "making something people want". It also returned what appears to have been an attempt my the same "group/person" at Shanksoft to make an original p2p client, "Shankster". Also couldn't find a version, but it seemed like yet-another-gnutella client, and never really got much traction.
Point of the story - uncov's team (at least just this one) doesn't seem to be anything substantial, but more some college aged wannabes (aren't we all?) who aren't actually out there doing it themselves.
In hindsight - this comment wasn't really worth my time. The research just proved what I thought before - and Harj's comment.
http://canadaonrails.com/speakers/show/7
Apparently he's the lead of RadRails and other projects.
"Persai is a startup that seeks to apply advanced machine learning techniques to content and advertising. We are using Amazon's web services to build a scalable architecture that will learn from consumer interests over time and match them with content crawled from around the web. The idea behind Persai is that you will have an active agent crawling the web looking for content that is relevant to you and only you. Every link we recommend will be something you want to read. We are zigging to social news' zag where popularity trumps relevance to the individual."
If a web service is ill-conceived, useless, etc. it will die of its own accord.
I'd be willing to wager, though, that something they lambaste will wind up as a huge success, and they'll look (even more) ridiculous.
The uncov blog, OTOH, seems to be all negative (we'll see if that changes in the future).
I remember back then when I was caught by the hype of web 2.0, I read TC review about this website called Zooomr. TC said it's like "Flickr on steroid". What happened to Zooomr now? still in beta and seems inactive. Have you seen Zooomr UI? not so good.. it's just Flickr with patches here and there, mashup here and there. I wonder how relevant TC reviews are. Even some of my friends these days have moved on and tagged TC as irrelevant and biased
And, "things to put on the internet" isn't that right way to think of it. Think of: "things to do with people and information". It may as well be infinite.
-- Patent Commissioner, 1899
He should stop using gmail then...