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Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by matt_wulfeck on Thursday September 15, 2016 @12:42AM (#12503471)
You're displaying a common trope I see sometimes with security:

> "because this particular thing does affect me personally, it doesn't matter. And because it doesn't matter to me it doesn't matter at all"

Blackmailing people with pictures taken from webcams is not theoretical. It happens[0] and it's good advice to tape up your cam. It may not affect you personally, but it may affect your wife, daughter, or sister in a much more sinister way. Believe it or not this kind of thing can ruin someone's life.

[0] http://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240209018/US-teen-hacker...

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by iceman99 on Thursday September 15, 2016 @06:07AM (#12504696)
I know someone whose camera and microphone were taken over. A window showed on her computer where the person watching her chatted with her and told her things that he only knew because he was watching her. It scared her to death and made her cry.

Beyond blackmail, it is probably close to the psychological equivalent of a stranger just suddenly appearing in your home watching you.

I think that every electronic camera and mic device should have a hard switch/button that physically disables both the camera and mic. Having to use tape or a cover does not keep you from being spied on; it only eliminates the visual spying. The attacker can still listen.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by zyngaro on Thursday September 15, 2016 @06:26AM (#12504754)
Smartphones represent a bigger security risk in that regard. Front facing rear facing, mic all ones personal data, pictures and so on.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by JohnStrange on Thursday September 15, 2016 @06:42AM (#12504822)
Hardly. You put your phone on the desk and it's going to show the ceiling. In contrast to this, people do all kinds of weird things in front of laptops. I've even heard once of someone who allegedly masturbated (!) in front of a laptop. Of course, that must have been an extreme outlier ...
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by matt_wulfeck on Thursday September 15, 2016 @12:43PM (#12507638)
Remote code execution on a cell phone is thousands of times harder than a PC. If you have a RCE for the newest iOS software then there's people who are ready to pay you millions.

An up-to-date Nexus or iPhone is about the most secure thing you own.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by jimhefferon on Thursday September 15, 2016 @08:29AM (#12505499)
Yes. They should have a switch.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by Golddisk on Thursday September 15, 2016 @11:03AM (#12506734)
This should definitely be a concern, but I feel like most people don't even realize that anything like that could happen. There is lots a news about webcams, baby monitors, etc. being hacked, but barely any warnings about making sure you keep your phone protected and secure, too.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by r_smart on Thursday September 15, 2016 @07:58AM (#12505302)
Not trying to be flippant, but just pull the USB cable out. Just takes a second, even if it's plugged into the back of your computer (I do it all the time with my keyboard if I'm working on my laptop that day).
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by Al-Khwarizmi on Thursday September 15, 2016 @08:16AM (#12505416)
That doesn't work with cameras integrated in laptops.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by r_smart on Thursday September 15, 2016 @08:39AM (#12505560)
That's...a really good point. Talk about a massive blind spot on my part :)
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by mschuetz on Thursday September 15, 2016 @03:15AM (#12504036)
> "This particular thing doesn't matter because I don't need it. And because I don't need it, nobody needs it at all"

This is all that I hate about stackoverflow.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by lostlogin on Thursday September 15, 2016 @03:36AM (#12504102)
You don't know SO rage until you get a case of a small, inconsequential problem which is of vital importance to you. After heaps of searching someone else has posted the same issue on SO. Then reposted a while later with "Don't worry, fixed".
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by aargh_aargh on Thursday September 15, 2016 @06:12AM (#12504708)
As always, releavant: https://xkcd.com/979/
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by barking on Thursday September 15, 2016 @04:36AM (#12504376)
Also the mandatory upvoted comment 'why are you using vb6'.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by Bartweiss on Thursday September 15, 2016 @10:03AM (#12506191)
"You should just tell the client that you'll rewrite everything from scratch in Rust rather than making this two-line fix."
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by YeGoblynQueenne on Thursday September 15, 2016 @04:05AM (#12504250)
That's just a bot someone made. It scrapes SO, constructs a model of question text and generates new questions from the model. Then, after a random number of days it posts that "Don't worry, fixed" you've seen.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by quirkafleeg on Thursday September 15, 2016 @04:28AM (#12504342)
What would be the point of that?

What he's describing is something that also happened (with far greater, more rage-inducing frequency) on tech forums before SO existed.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by celticninja on Thursday September 15, 2016 @04:40AM (#12504384)
I believe it is a joke.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by quirkafleeg on Thursday September 15, 2016 @05:12AM (#12504508)
Oops. Thanks. I had a fear I was just missing a joke, but I have seen bots used on forums for no immediately obvious/spammy reason and I've also seen people genuinely imagine strange motives for relatively explicable things.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by dkersten on Thursday September 15, 2016 @06:37AM (#12504800)
This is probably one of the reasons jokes are very much discouraged on HN. They pollute the conversation and add confusion. I too didn't notice that it was meant to be a joke.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by YeGoblynQueenne on Thursday September 15, 2016 @08:24PM (#12511042)
It's a joke. I thought it was obvious, I'd have laughed if someone else had made it and I didn't think it's polluting anything, not tucked away in this side-thread-ish.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by katpas on Thursday September 15, 2016 @07:17AM (#12505023)
I've been using React for my last few projects (not by choice) and have found this a lot. Maybe because its newer, maybe because it doesn't play nice with other front-end things. SO rage indeed.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by tetha on Thursday September 15, 2016 @09:38AM (#12505986)
Plus I don't buy the "Doesn't affect me"-angle. In general, people abusing vectors like this are dang smart (or know someone who knows someone who's smart. doesn't matter). There's a reason why my webcam isn't plugged in unless I explicitly use it.

What about recognizing keys, credit card details or important information in letters on the desk? Some simple image recognition for these, and a large dragnet-style attack with this seems quite lucrative from a minute or two of thought.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by josephcooney on Thursday September 15, 2016 @03:28AM (#12504070)
All the author did was say it wasn't a concern for them. Nowhere did they say it didn't matter.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by aluhut on Thursday September 15, 2016 @03:46AM (#12504159)
> Hey, but putting a sticker on your webcam is a way to show how 1337 your are!

This was a little bit more.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by fmueller on Thursday September 15, 2016 @03:44AM (#12504147)
He's clearly a man.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by JadeNB on Thursday September 15, 2016 @09:39AM (#12505999)
> He's clearly a man.

What is the point of this comment? Even if you had some way to know (EDIT: which you (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12506075) point out is the case), why should it matter, especially since no-one else in this thread seems to have brought up gender?

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by PeCaN on Thursday September 15, 2016 @01:14PM (#12507916)
Using “them” when you already clearly know the gender is bad style stemming from political-correctness zealots.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by fmueller on Thursday September 15, 2016 @09:50AM (#12506075)
> all they will see is a bearded man staring to the front
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by ysavir on Thursday September 15, 2016 @09:47AM (#12506048)
I don't think he was saying that it's not important at all. His point was that there are plenty more security risks that deserve more attention.

In particular, he was calling attention to all the people that cover up their camera and proudly exclaim "Done! Safe at last", while oblivious to all the other hacks and malware that could already be infecting their computer.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by cleaver on Thursday September 15, 2016 @01:41PM (#12508160)
Maybe it's just me, but I didn't take away that the commenter felt it is unimportant and he humourously explained why. He also explained that the other things were of greater concern.

More importantly, there's the fact that the level of access required to take over a webcam implies the ability to do all sorts of other things.

What I took away was that if his system was compromised, an open webcam wouldn't likely be the chosen vector for ruining his life.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by XJOKOLAT on Thursday September 15, 2016 @05:26AM (#12504559)
Completely this.

As someone who was profiled and eventually experienced an attempted-blackmailed by a company in India (employer details gained among other things) - everything seems inconsequential ("I've done nothing wrong"), until it is used, abused (and lies added to) to threaten you.

It doesn't matter whether things are true or not. What matters is, when someone gains details about you, the story and lies they can spin. The cost, distress, and difficulty in trying to resolve and take control of the story can be incredible.

Your personal details should remain just that.

Don't be complacent.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by Kadin on Thursday September 15, 2016 @10:45AM (#12506558)
> experienced an attempted-blackmailed by a company in India

Is this a well-known thing? I haven't heard of it before. Is there some sort of common pattern that such attacks follow? (E.g. most phishing attacks seem to be categorizable, following a number of set patterns, because the people who do them basically try to run the same attack against a lot of people at once to get one or two victims. Is this similar, or is it a matter of individual targeting?)

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by lliiffee on Thursday September 15, 2016 @07:04AM (#12504952)
Would you mind sharing any more details about the attempted blackmail?
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by chillwaves on Thursday September 15, 2016 @07:07AM (#12504967)
Nice try, blackmailer.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by icantdrive55 on Thursday September 15, 2016 @09:06AM (#12505741)
It's not just blackmail that I worry about.

A hypothetical, ruthless hacker manages to install malware on a person's computer. Hell they could target certain zip codes. All the information is on the Internet. Hell, they could get a picture of your home. (By the way, Google will blure out you home, if you ask. It tends to reappear, although they claim its permanent. If your house has been sold recently, a thief/criminal has easy access to interior layout through Zillow, and the like.)

They watch you through your cams. A lot can be deduced with that information--valuable information that could be sold.

Maybe I've watched too many movies, or crime shows, but I just picture certain questions being asked, "Does the home look like its worth robbing?" "Are there hostages we could take?" "What times do they leave, we need to install our cams because they might find our malware?" "Do they have a safe, or do they seem like they have money/valuables in the house, bedroom?" "Are they doing anything illegial themselfs?" They could develop psychological profiles for people?

I hate to think like this, but certain people think nothing of doing some horrid crimes. A hacker overseas gains some valuable information, and makes a phone call to the Triads, or Russian mob? Your life becomes a statistic.

It sounds far fetched, but just what if? (And am I going to cover my cams? No, because I don't have a life, and I'm poor.)

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by beachstartup on Thursday September 15, 2016 @09:17AM (#12505820)
this happens a lot through low tech means. they'll just case a house and note the owners' movements until they recognize a pattern.

the only real solution to this is good insurance and good luck.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by stinkytaco on Thursday September 15, 2016 @09:38AM (#12505983)
But that at least requires some human investment of time and movement. Someone has to case your house and sit there for however long it takes, risking discovery, boredom, opportunity cost, etc.

Wholesale information theft is another level. Someone in a different state or country has access not only to me, but potentially hundreds of people's details, without ever leaving their home. And then they can leverage a whole community that is doing the same. This is how "The Fappening" occurred. This sort of crowdsourced stalking would be impossible pre-internet.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by Bartweiss on Thursday September 15, 2016 @09:55AM (#12506118)
Surely it's at least as much human effort to compromise a specific webcam, identify the house it's tied to, monitor it extensively, and then rob/assault the owners?

Obviously there are other reasons to worry about webcam access, but "they could spy on me to set up a robbery" is exceedingly low on my list since it just recreates a pattern that doesn't involve a computer.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by stinkytaco on Thursday September 15, 2016 @10:04AM (#12506195)
I think it's more about the mass dissemination of that information. We've seen how easy it is to "Dox" someone without much information. One person might not be able to glean much, but what happens if 4Chan gets a hold of that data and has decided they don't like me?
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by alexjakobnelson on Thursday September 15, 2016 @09:40AM (#12506004)
Knowing your neighbors doesn't hurt, either. I like to think that if my neighbors noticed something untoward happening at my house, they would sound the alert.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by mafribe on Thursday September 15, 2016 @11:06AM (#12506757)
This is all true, but wouldn't somebody who has the technical skills to pull this all of, be able to pull in a legal income far in excess of what burglary is likely to yield?
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by heroprotagonist on Thursday September 15, 2016 @12:11PM (#12507327)
A lot of trojans are like off-the-shelf kits that anyone can grab. The technical skills amount to convincing someone to run an executable (email, malicious USB keys, poorly managed advertising networks, etc) and then clicking a few buttons in a GUI to connect to them and do what you will.

For the slightly more technical, you've got frameworks like metasploit which can perform network attacks, but even that is getting much more like a kit these days. Port scan for services, fingerprint them, check database for known vulnerabilities, automatically attempt to exploit known vulnerabilities, deploy payload (the trojan).

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by tropo on Thursday September 15, 2016 @01:03PM (#12507818)
A typical drug dealer would make more money working at McDonald's, so why don't they? People are weird.

Once you've been convicted of something, or even arrested really, you have few legal options to support yourself.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by dragonwriter on Thursday September 15, 2016 @01:15PM (#12507923)
> A typical drug dealer would make more money working at McDonald's, so why don't they?

I think a substantial share of those drug dealers who aren't working formal-economy jobs as well are also drug addicts that would not be able to keep such jobs particularly well even if they weren't drug dealers, and/or convicts that wouldn't be likely to be offered such jobs if they chose to pursue them.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by greenspot on Thursday September 15, 2016 @04:48AM (#12504405)
> Blackmailing people with pictures taken from webcams

How can one blackmail a person with webcam pictures where the person just stares into a screen?

If you mean NSFW pics I don't think they're done with a computer's webcam cam. Nowadays, people use phones for that use case.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by Smirnoff on Thursday September 15, 2016 @05:06AM (#12504489)
It's not only pics of people staring into a screen.

There was a case about 5-6 years ago when a guy recorded and streamed his secretly gay roomate having sex in the dorm. The gay roomate committed suicide later.

Work computers can be taken home or to business trips where things can happen in the hotel after the deal is struck.

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by gruez on Thursday September 15, 2016 @11:08AM (#12506784)
>where things can happen in the hotel after the deal is struck.

Serious question: what happens when a deal is struck? They go out to drink? They go back to their hotels? They have sex with their coworkers?

Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by Smirnoff on Thursday September 15, 2016 @11:42AM (#12507078)
Serious answer: whatever happens is none of your or FBI's business ;)
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by jdavis703 on Thursday September 15, 2016 @09:33AM (#12505958)
I'm not naked when I'm using the computer. When I am naked my laptop is closed and most likely in my bag. I guess a lot of people keep their laptop open on their nightstand or something?
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by Bartweiss on Thursday September 15, 2016 @10:05AM (#12506202)
Open all night on a table/desk certainly isn't rare. If you're in a dorm room or a studio apartment that can mean "staring straight at the bed".
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by 6t6t6t6 on Friday September 16, 2016 @07:32AM (#12513271)
A lot of people mastubates in front of their computer.
Re:FBI director: Cover up your webcam by chinpokomon on Thursday September 15, 2016 @05:00AM (#12504471)
If society wasn't so prudish about naked bodies, it'd be less of a problem. It's one of those shoot the hostage situations. We could defuse a lot of our concerns if we'd relax our self imposed constraints and it would give us more time to worry about the things which matter more.