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Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by rdtsc on Thursday September 08, 2016 @07:51PM (#12458526)
If only we had an agency in charge of protecting and securing these kinds of systems.

It seems NSA has spent all its budget on cool hacking tools and programs, exploiting hard drive firmware and routers and other crap. Yet the all SF-86 forms (except CIA's +) got stolen right under our noses. But again, nobody is going to feel cool defending and securing stuff, everyone wants to be on red team.

Stolen stuff includes millions of fingerprints. Those are obviously not hashed, so that's just the raw data I imagine. They'll learn lesson to not rely on fingerprints as much. Maybe that's one good thing coming out of it.

[+] CIA could still be affected, if for example some people there started at other agencies, or in the military (CIA likes to hire ex-Marines for example).

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by linkregister on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:11PM (#12458671)
> It seems NSA has spent all its budget on cool hacking tools and programs

From the report: On March 20, 2014, US-CERT notified OPM that a third party had reported data exfiltration from the OPM's network.

I think it's likely it was NSA that made the notification. Maybe not. Either way, what further could NSA have done about it? The NSA can't make another federal agency improve its computer security. At best it can perform audits: which it appears to have done; OPM had the lowest security posture of any agency.

Should the NSA have prevented the exfiltration? How would that work? Do you want the NSA to have the authority to cut network connections occurring in the U.S. internet? Should the NSA have authority over civilian government agencies? What about hacking and wiping the intruders' endpoints? Sounds like an act of war to me, if those endpoints are on Chinese soil.

I doubt the vast majority of HN'ers want an increase in NSA's authority or scope.

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by rdtsc on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:20PM (#12458717)
> The NSA can't make another federal agency improve its computer security.

Maybe it should have the power to intervene and stop it? This is still the federal government (it is not about walking into Facebook and shutting it down). I think it is the only agency with the brainpower to do it. It should be been trying to hack it and test the system periodically to identify flaws in it. Then mandate changes.

> Do you want the NSA to have the authority to cut network connections occurring in the U.S. internet?

To the federal agencies. Cyber defence doesn't work with current bloated beaurocracy. Nobody seems to be in charge.

> I doubt the vast majority of HN'ers want an increase in NSA's authority or scope.

I don't know. I would rather them spend more time defending, wouldn't mind expanding their power and diverting more budget towards that.

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by BoringCode on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:24PM (#12458745)
> Nobody seems to be in charge.

That's indeed the problem. There was a strong push for a while to put NSA in charge of civilian infosec infrastructure. But Congress didn't really want to put a combat support agency in that role. So DHS is technically in charge of that. But we still have the majority of federal agencies stuck fending for themselves when it comes to securing their networks. Without stronger action from Congress, this may never change.

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by ethbro on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:28PM (#12458766)
Because when I think of technical sophistication, I think of DHS.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by BoringCode on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:30PM (#12458770)
Exactly, they simply have never had the institutional knowledge required to secure government networks.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by linkregister on Friday September 09, 2016 @01:22PM (#12464258)
Their hostile attitude towards computer security pay incentives practically guarantees nobody will jump ship from IOC or TAO. This problem will likely only be resolved by a big media stink.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by Godel_unicode on Friday September 09, 2016 @01:11AM (#12459760)
> Without stronger action from Congress, this may never change.

You should go read the cybersecurity act passed in December of 2015, and realize that DHS is now authorized to force agencies to use it's security and offerings.

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by atdt on Thursday September 08, 2016 @10:11PM (#12459220)
> The NSA can't make another federal agency improve its computer security.

Maybe not directly. But the NSA could play a much more positive role in information security generally by moving out of the shadows and making more of its research public. The expertise that the NSA has acquired in securing information needs to be widely disseminated to work its way into engineering curricula and praxis, and that won't happen as long as the NSA communicates by whispering.

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by linkregister on Friday September 09, 2016 @12:51PM (#12463951)
Yes, maybe they should release a kernel security scheme for Linux that incorporates some lessons learned. Maybe they could call it SELinux.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by atdt on Friday September 09, 2016 @09:45PM (#12467241)
I mentioned SELinux in a previous comment along the same vein.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by missed_out on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:24PM (#12458744)
After 28 years of DoD service, civilian engineer, I just called it quits. I got tired of the retaliation for turning in security violations. The last one: sharing of passwords on a secured network. One violator's response: Where is it written we cannot share passwords? Why the retaliation? It portrays a bad image. Nice!
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by rewrew on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:34PM (#12458794)
This kind of stupidity is why I think I can never take a gov't job. I don't think I'd last a week. Sorry you had to put up with it.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by ridgeguy on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:39PM (#12458823)
Any reason why you think this is unique to government employment? My experience in both gov't and private sector work suggests it's ordinary human nature.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by colinbartlett on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:39PM (#12458826)
What about things the US Digital Service or 18F? The image they present is that those teams are different and outside the standard government bureaucracy. I'm skeptical.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by zacharycohn on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:43PM (#12458843)
Employee of 18F here, speaking unofficially. We care a lot about security - both from the technical side and from the policy compliance side!
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by rdtsc on Thursday September 08, 2016 @10:06PM (#12459198)
How was recruitment?. Someone I know tried to get a got job there, got stuck in the queue forever. Was told to wait months. So eventually gave up and took another job.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by fern12 on Friday September 09, 2016 @02:08AM (#12459940)
Sometimes it's a matter of being in the right place at the right time. I applied (and was rejected) for at least 50 federal positions before I was hired. My organization needed someone fast to replace a 20-year fed who was retiring. They compiled a list of all the candidates who made the cert, and in the end, a veteran was selected. Except she wasn't a veteran, not even close. She had lied on her application, and assumed that no one would follow through - and she was almost right, because OPM clearly didn't do anything. But one of my bosses is an Air Force reservist, and he caught it right away. They went back to the original list, and to make a long story short, I was hired even though I'm a non-veteran with only private sector experience. To anyone who is really determined to make it happen, I've heard Kathryn Troutman's books recommended by coworkers.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by kevin_thibedeau on Thursday September 08, 2016 @10:23PM (#12459275)
USAJobs is badly in need of an 18F overhaul.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by zacharycohn on Friday September 09, 2016 @10:51AM (#12462736)
Hiring in gov't is hard. We've had to pause and refactor our hiring process several times. Long delays are just as frustrating to us, trust me. It's getting better all the time though.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by Godel_unicode on Friday September 09, 2016 @01:17AM (#12459787)
> We care a lot about security

Which is doubtless why you ignore the TIC guidelines, etc

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by jrnichols on Thursday September 08, 2016 @10:17PM (#12459245)
Sounds like one of those situations where you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Even the most eloquent bitchslap directed at such users, even if you disguise it as user education, can still cause strife. :/
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by redwards510 on Thursday September 08, 2016 @10:30PM (#12459295)
> you're damned if you do and damned if you don't

Most of my military experience followed this maxim. For example: You witness your squadmates doing something against the rules. Do you do the Official thing and report that to your unit commander, as you required to by guidelines and the definition of "good soldier"? Because if you do, now your entire squad will ostracize you, make your life complete shit, and possibly leave you to die on the battlefield. If you don't, you had better hope they don't get caught, because if it comes out that you knew about it and didn't say anything, now you are in just as much trouble.

This happened literally every day.

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by kardashian007 on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:38PM (#12458813)
Sucks. Consider writing a book / get in touch with theintercept on a new machine from public wifi. https://theintercept.com/securedrop/

FWIW: Someone I know whom worked for DIA as a sysadmin about 10-15 years ago recalled multiple instances of TS/SCI folks being fired for surfing for porn over monitored networks... career- & clearance-ending. Maybe that's the only culturally-unacceptable sin in that community, apart from making the org/folks look bad?

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by wrs on Thursday September 08, 2016 @11:45PM (#12459521)
Seriously? I don't think I've ever seen a security policy where it was not written that you cannot share passwords!
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by jessaustin on Friday September 09, 2016 @12:26AM (#12459623)
This was probably at State Department. They have difficulty communicating security guidelines to staff and management.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by kevin_thibedeau on Thursday September 08, 2016 @10:16PM (#12459240)
> Yet the all SF-86 forms

Not quite all of them. OPM doesn't seem to keep track of any paper SF-86s that were phased out in favor of the first web site iteration around 2001. Those earlier records may be safe. The image PDF isn't searchable so I couldn't confirm this.

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by rdtsc on Thursday September 08, 2016 @11:13PM (#12459430)
Yap, 2000 or sounds about right.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by BoringCode on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:00PM (#12458591)
One of NSA's primary missions is information assurance. I'm sure they have blue teams. But their mandate is pretty limited in regards to what they can do with civilian infrastructure.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by rdtsc on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:13PM (#12458677)
Technically DHS should do it. I don't see DHS having the expertise and brainpower for it.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by Godel_unicode on Friday September 09, 2016 @01:06AM (#12459746)
> If only we had an agency in charge of protecting and securing these kinds of systems.

Firstly, why do you insist in letting OPM off the hook?

Secondly, even if we stipulate that OPM isn't at fault and that someone should have stopped this, you should read about roles and responsibilities in the government before blindly blaming NSA. Start here. https://www.us-cert.gov/about-us

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by rdtsc on Friday September 09, 2016 @01:41AM (#12459865)
> why do you insist in letting OPM off the hook?

I am not. It failed massively. Letting it do what it kept doing before is not going to work. We have hard evidence of its failure. There is no point mentioning it, it is obvious.

> , you should read about roles and responsibilities in the government before blindly blaming NSA. Start here. https://www.us-cert.gov/about-us

So where was US-CERT all this time? It was active since 2003. It had more than a decade to ramp up and get up to speed.

Why where all the electronic SF-86 forms stolen? You'd think out of all the places, they would protect, that would be close to the top.

> before blindly blaming NSA

Because they are probably the only ones that have the smarts to do it? Also isn't that their mission as well. https://www.nsa.gov/what-we-do/ . Second line is "Defends vital networks". OPM files with detailed and personal details on millions of current and past government workers who have clearance is pretty vital one would think.

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by jonnybgood on Thursday September 08, 2016 @10:17PM (#12459246)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought NSA is only in charge of protecting classified systems. OPM data wasn't in a classified system.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by batbomb on Thursday September 08, 2016 @09:08PM (#12458963)
NIST sets the standards (FIPS).

Most programs for security guidelines seem to be descendants and ongoing implementations of HSPD-12.

I believe the Office of the Inspector General would be in charge of auditing in some cases, but it's usually up to each individual agency.

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by unimpressive on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:40PM (#12458829)
>It seems NSA has spent all its budget on cool hacking tools and programs, exploiting hard drive firmware and routers and other crap. Yet the all SF-86 forms (except CIA's +) got stolen right under our noses. But again, nobody is going to feel cool defending and securing stuff, everyone wants to be on red team.

Damn right. This is one of the aspects of the Snowden leaks that was underplayed. The NSA seems to think that the best defense is a good offense, and maybe they have good reasons for that but from the outside it seems like they're just overly affected with wanting to feel 'l33t'.

https://medium.com/@bruces/the-ecuadorian-library-a1ebd2b4a0...

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by superuser2 on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:55PM (#12458894)
Exactly this. The US government thinks about computer security as a kind of war - cyberwar - and for better or for worse it has adapted the mindset that "security by demonstrated capability to drop scary bombs with brutal precision and efficiency" is more realistic than "security by making every building bomb proof."

Geopolitics these days isn't about impenetrable borders, it's about deterrence by ability to project force. They are looking at IT security the same way.

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by atdt on Thursday September 08, 2016 @09:57PM (#12459163)
Re-orienting the NSA's mission to focus on improving security through public research and technology transfer (like SELinux) is the most viable option for stopping the current arms race. There seem to be a shortage of people at the NSA who have the visionary power to imagine a future in which computing is secure. Which is a shame, because it is a future we can realize; the building blocks are here.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by Kalium on Thursday September 08, 2016 @09:45PM (#12459118)
As other people touch on, a good offense is something the NSA can actually do themselves. They don't have the authority to be a good defense. They had - and have - no ability to compel OPM to get their shit together.

In terms of defense, they've got a severe case of Congress-induces toothlessness.

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by BoringCode on Thursday September 08, 2016 @10:41PM (#12459329)
Here's the kicker, technically NSA can't even do offense (attack). That's what US Cybercom is for. The NSA primary missions are SIGNIT and IA as a combat support agency. So they can gather information on foreign adversaries (and defend DoD networks), but they don't have the mandate to actually perform cyberwarfare. Or for that matter defend civilian networks against attack.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by Kalium on Thursday September 08, 2016 @10:50PM (#12459349)
NSA and USCC is a distinction without a difference. They've even got the same head honcho.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by BoringCode on Thursday September 08, 2016 @10:55PM (#12459361)
Both organizations focus on similar concepts (after all exploitation and attack are two sides of the same coin). But there is a legal distinction which is important. NSA legally cannot do all that CYBERCOM can do.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by Kalium on Thursday September 08, 2016 @10:59PM (#12459378)
You're absolutely correct, it's legally a massive difference. In practice, they're more or less the same people groups of the same people.

So I tend to view the distinction between the two as something of a legal fiction.

Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by treebeard901 on Thursday September 08, 2016 @10:58PM (#12459377)
At least you can change your password. Good luck getting new fingerprints.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by throwawayReply on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:36PM (#12458801)
241 pages and not one mention of NIST or FIPS.
Re:The OPM Data Breach [pdf] by noahkunin on Thursday September 08, 2016 @09:51PM (#12459148)
There's actual several mentions of NIST, ATOs, and FISMA, all of which implicitly cover FIPS by reference.

#acronymheatdeath