A short read on news stories or youtube videos reminds me of that. I'm nearly always disappointed. I'm one of those techno utopians. I had great hope for the internet 20 years ago. You know, folks broadening their minds, learning things, not being so racist, finding similarities between places, and so on. And while they have, to an extent, I'm still sorely disappointed.
The problem isn't the world, it's that you're assuming the rest of the world (including the western one) shares your values and aspirations of what should and should not be down to minute details.
A lot of middle- and upper class people expect to talk to middle- and upper class people in other countries.
And in that case, you’d likely get people living by the Knigge, and you’d get awesome results.
Sadly, our society has thrown out etiquette in the recent times.
The one third of girls in the Arab region who marry before their 18th birthday? [0]
Or the 36% (currently) of Americans who support Trump's policies? [1]
Or the roughly 30% of French people who support a presidential candidate [2] whose father and previous party leader was fined for asserting that gassing chambers in world war 2 were just a small historical detail? [3]
Not sure the right thing is astounding you here.
[0]: http://www.prb.org/pdf13/child-marriage-arab-region.pdf
[1]: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/clinton-leads-trump-5-points-reute...
[2]: http://www.sudradio.fr/Politique/Sondage-Marine-Le-Pen-au-2n...
[3]: http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2016/04/06/jean-mari...
> Or the 36% (currently) of Americans who support Trump's policies? [1]
You are making a shortcut. There are probably various reasons why people favor a candidate, and you should not underestimate the "I hate the other one even more" factor.
> French people going on about how muslims should all be imprisoned
This is a preposterous statement. Even the FN's proposed policies is not about putting folks in prison, but to make them leave the country if they had the power to do so. Plus, French prisons are already over-capacity and most prison sentences are not applied because of that. Do you know what you are talking about or do you read tabloids?
I believe we may have gotten drunk together after a HN Kansai meetup last year, but my memory of the night's hazy.
That makes them French, not Arabic then.
The problem is somewhere in that distinction I imagine.
That the French wouldn't be so bothered if people came to France to be French and adopt the local manners and attitudes; instead people seemingly are coming to the liberal and liberated countries with a distant goal of making them as backward and oppressive as the countries they left/fled.
Maybe the non-assimilators wouldn't come to France if the French had not gone to North Africa and convinced them that France is awesome[1] in the first place.
1. Majority of France's Muslim population comes from it's ex-colonies.
part of the colonisers spiel to the colonised is aboyut human rights, freedom and liberty.
Yes, precisely. To recap very roughly: France brought in a lot of cheap labor from North Africa (a lot of Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria) to rebuild and develop at low cost after World War 2. These immigrants were housed together, at the periphery of large cities (what are now known as "banlieues"). These neighborhoods still exist, and a lot of the children and grandchildren of these immigrants still live there. These areas are typically poorer than the cities they're next to, have poor education, higher crime rates, etc.
Of course, they're French citizens, but they don't feel particularly French because the rest of French society tends to look down on them and segregate them. And they might speak a bit of Arabic at home (or not), but they don't really feel Arabic because, well, they've spent their whole life in France, and even if they go to Tunisia/Morocco/Algeria/etc. a few weeks in the summer to visit extended family, people there don't see them as belonging there anymore.
It's a thorny situation.
I see this line in "liberal" countries and find it hypocritical.
Part of being liberal is the freedom to adopt any legal practices that makes you happy. If "liberal" countries think XYZ practices are backward or oppressive, make it illegal and file cases against people violating it.
Asking others to follow unwritten rules isn't fair.
Many liberals are unhappy that immigrants haven't integrated and by this, they want immigrants to adopt language, dress, food and religion(mainly Atheism) of the majority. It is hard to make these things illegal and still call yourself as a liberal.
Yes, sort of.
Let's take a slightly extreme example - liberal societies outlaw slavery. Suppose I come to France and want to keep slaves; how hypocritical of the French to talk about liberté and not allow me to keep the slaves that I wish to keep.
I'm not sure it's true hypocrisy; it's just a innate part of liberalism that there are limits to the liberties allowed.
so it is not hypocritical.
It is hypocritical to claim liberalism but outlaw a person right to wear clothing of their choice in public areas...
Yeah, you're probably the best person to talk about France then.
Just remember about 10% of citizens have been voting for FN for the past 30 years with little evolution one way or another (it has been getting a little more votes since the leader isn't the openly racist founder anymore, which is actually a good sign isn't it?). Also, judging someone on one of their parents is very bad form, would you also criticise people for voting for a candidate whose mother was a playmate?
The real difference, the reason why they are getting better scores than they used to, is that most moderate people are stopping voting altogether because the moderate parties are disappointing everyone is every way.
10% of citizens is too little IMO to generalise as "the French", especially if you're not even living in France.
Come on, she took over her dad's party very happily, you know very well that this argument doesn't apply here.
As far as popularity goes, we'll see what happens next year.
It seems that in your eagerness to comment, you missed on the fact that my original post never said that all French people supported FN - just that the French population includes a non trivial subset who do.
> Yeah, you're probably the best person to talk about France then.
I'm glad there are people on this forum who are the best person to talk about anything!
Of course if you're black, a woman, gay, or any other minority they'll be happy to insult and harass you for their entertainment.
And not to forget all the very mundane people who don't have much to tell you about except for their mind numbing day labor job and how they can't take care of their sick children.
The world is much less poetic and open minded than many techno utopians would like to think.