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Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by jordigh on Thursday August 25, 2016 @03:12PM (#12361623)
> "A trigger warning is advance notice about subject material that may be difficult for certain students to read, hear or see."

But that's not what trigger warnings are for... it's not just about mild discomfort. They're to prevent panic attacks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauma_trigger

Whether trigger warnings are effective or not is a different matter, but of course if you portray them as being about being offended or mild discomfort that they sound utterly stupid.

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by deong on Thursday August 25, 2016 @04:13PM (#12362112)
> They're to prevent panic attacks.

That might have been the original intent of a "trigger warning", but their sheer prevalence today indicates that this is either no longer true or else we have nothing less than a massive public health emergency that we should be dropping everything else to work to address.

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by galdosdi on Thursday August 25, 2016 @04:44PM (#12362341)
It does seem that way. It's kind of how a few people have food allergies, but a larger number of people have foods they refuse to eat despite not having allergies. It's not uncommon to find out that someone who merely has a preference to avoid an ingredient has been fibbing and calling it an "allergy" just to smooth things over socially.

This is really frustrating for someone with a genuine allergy because you feel drowned out by all the "fake" allergies that are just preferences and as a result sometimes people take allergies less seriously because they assume your "allergy" is just a preference, or just generally take it less seriously. For example, if someone asks you if something contains gluten, knowing nothing else, what would you estimate are the chances they are actually seriously allergic to it? These days, with the popularity of avoiding gluten in the west, maybe below 50%. This is a scary situation for anyone with a genuine allergy.

I'm sure it's just as frustrating for people with genuine PTSD or other situations where real mental health trauma could occur, to be drowned out and lumped in with all these folks who merely experience mild discomfort at discussing a topic.

So, a plea -- if you don't genuinely suffer from a serious physical or mental health response to a situation, but merely mild discomfort, be honest and just say you don't like something. You're making it worse for people with genuine problems when you lie and call it a genuine medical problem.

If you're not sure, a good rule of thumb is if you haven't been to or plan to soon go to a doctor (or really want to, but can't for some reason eg financial) to discuss the problem, it must not be disturbing your life enough to count as a real malady.

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by armenarmen on Thursday August 25, 2016 @05:25PM (#12362638)
very well put
Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by scott_s on Thursday August 25, 2016 @05:12PM (#12362556)
I don't see a prevalence of trigger warnings. I do see a prevalence of people talking about trigger warnings.
Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by philovivero on Thursday August 25, 2016 @09:15PM (#12363697)
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't live/work in California.

I spend a lot of time in SF and LA, and in both places, the types of people who demand trigger warnings (and, related, talk about microaggressions and other imaginary offenses) are pretty common.

That also happens to be where a huge chunk of HN commenters/readers are based.

It is our reality. I do celebrate the news that outside of the SF/LA metro areas this cancer has not yet reached, but my day-to-day is very much affected by it.

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by actuallyalys on Thursday August 25, 2016 @08:09PM (#12363436)
It does seem like the discussion often assumes they are or will be widespread, which doesn't seem to be happening. I'd like to see numbers, particularly on college campuses, where they are allegedly more common.
Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by api on Thursday August 25, 2016 @07:33PM (#12363297)
I thought I was the only one.

This whole topic feels a bit... I dunno... fabricated? astroturfed? I mean are these things really an issue outside of maybe a few humanities departments in super-liberal private colleges?

It's an election year folks.

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by jotux on Thursday August 25, 2016 @04:17PM (#12362145)
I read the wikipedia you linked, specifically about trigger warnings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauma_trigger#Trigger_warning...

But your statement:

> They're to prevent panic attacks.

Seems to counter the arguments in the link:

> Richard J. McNally, a Professor of Psychology at Harvard University, while writing for Pacific Standard,[13] discussed the merit of trigger warnings noting that "Trigger warnings are designed to help survivors avoid reminders of their trauma, thereby preventing emotional discomfort. Yet avoidance reinforces PTSD. Conversely, systematic exposure to triggers and the memories they provoke is the most effective means of overcoming the disorder" while citing several academic studies conducted on PTSD sufferers.

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by bmm6o on Thursday August 25, 2016 @04:35PM (#12362274)
There's a difference between exposure therapy (conducted with a trained therapist or just in a deliberate self-directed way), and having a panic attack in the middle of your day because of an unexpected stimulus.
Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by artmageddon on Thursday August 25, 2016 @04:35PM (#12362270)
> Yet avoidance reinforces PTSD. Conversely, systematic exposure to triggers and the memories they provoke is the most effective means of overcoming the disorder" while citing several academic studies conducted on PTSD sufferers.

Right, but I'd assume this is probably done in small increments or doses? A person who's finding themselves exposed to said triggers may not be able to control how much of it they get in certain situations, which could arguably leave them off worse after the event.

[dead]
Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by nikcheerla on Thursday August 25, 2016 @10:56PM (#12364007)
This comment scares me in a way I can't really put my finger on.

Maybe it's the implicit assumption that oppression outweighs everything else – i.e someone who is black ipso facto lives a worse life than someone who is white, disregarding all other factors.

I feel like if a critical majority of people actually believed that all colleges were just "factories of oppression, sexual assault, and white supremacy", then we'd have some kind of civil war.

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by r_smart on Friday August 26, 2016 @11:05AM (#12366752)
The other implication of this that never gets acknowledged: If modern US colleges are all these horrible things and widely known to be left leaning, then why are the students mostly all leftists? Isn't there something rotten in the institution if it aligns with you ideologically and yet is an engine of the oppression you rail against?
Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by jotux on Thursday August 25, 2016 @11:13PM (#12364049)
His comment was specifically talking about treatment of PTSD and anxiety disorders. But I guess since he's white his conclusion, based on studies, is invalid?
Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by wfo on Thursday August 25, 2016 @04:44PM (#12362340)
If a person cannot read a piece of literature without having a panic attack then perhaps they are not physically able to take a course in, say, English. It is up to the university to decide what it does with this kind of student: do they choose to not admit or graduate students who are incapable of completing the degree requirements? Do they tailor the degrees to students with special needs and make exceptions? Do they insist these students take a leave of absence and receive treatment before they continue?

All of these responses seem reasonable. If a student has such a unique life experience that they are not capable of completing standard university coursework, then the onus is on them to make that known to professors or administrators and come to some compromise. It is not the responsibility of the university to label and restructure its courses to acknowledge that there is a tiny fraction of the population that cannot participate in their education without severe distress.

Anything could be a trigger. Anything involving criminal justice could be a trigger for someone falsely (or rightfully!) imprisoned. A rape scene could be a trigger for a rape victim. Certain feminist literature could be a trigger for someone whose life was ruined through a false rape accusation. Someone who was recently dumped or cheated on could be triggered by discussing relationships. Perhaps a physics class triggers someone afflicted by severe existential angst -- entropy always increases? Domestic violence, child abuse, war, general violence, bullying, racism, torture -- many of these, things every college student should consider and think about before graduating -- are all triggers for someone.

So we should really put a trigger warning on every course. Better, let's make that trigger warning describe roughly what's going to be in the course and what students can expect out of it. Better yet, maybe put the grading scheme, reading list, and the rest of the administrative information about the course in it. We could call it some kind of nonsense word so as not to offend the people who hate trigger warnings or the people who love them. How about "syllabus".

Course syllabi already have a generally accurate description of course content so students may choose whether or not to expose themselves to any given material or prepare themselves.

The fact that a course is a college course and discusses human interaction at all should serve as enough as a trigger warning for anyone -- there could be triggering material in it. Period. Even if a class is about cold war economics, a student could bring up rape or racism in discussion.

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by Jeema101 on Thursday August 25, 2016 @03:33PM (#12361803)
Avoidance in the form of 'trigger warnings' may actually worsen the underlying problem for people with PTSD because avoidance can strengthen the underlying fear.

Successful treatment often actually involves confronting the fear, little by little, until it no longer causes discomfort:

"Exposure therapy is a type of cognitive behavioral therapy[118] that involves assisting trauma survivors to re-experience distressing trauma-related memories and reminders in order to facilitate habituation and successful emotional processing of the trauma memory. Most exposure therapy programs include both imaginal confrontation with the traumatic memories and real-life exposure to trauma reminders; this therapy modality is well supported by clinical evidence."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraumatic_stress_disorder#...

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by tangent128 on Thursday August 25, 2016 @04:00PM (#12362012)
Exposure therapy can be effective, but under controlled circumstances as supervised by a professional and prepared for by the patient.

Uncontrolled exposure is more likely to worsen the anxiety than extinguish it.

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by aninhumer on Thursday August 25, 2016 @05:20PM (#12362598)
I feel like the idea the parent was suggesting is that avoidance behaviour itself can increase anxiety about the topic, and that encouraging it may end up being more harmful than the risk of uncontrolled exposure, especially when the result of such exposure is not necessarily negative.
Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by ebola1717 on Thursday August 25, 2016 @03:41PM (#12361860)
Classrooms aren't treatment centers. Regardless, your point is a much fairer one to raise than the "intellectual rigor" argument the University is making.
Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by ZeroGravitas on Thursday August 25, 2016 @04:09PM (#12362070)
This argument is absurd and yet I see it often enough that I assume it is a standard political talking point.

I mean, are you really arguing that the clinical approach to trauma is to surprise the patient with the topic in the middle of important everyday tasks?

Obviously, trigger warning provide a useful tool for people to manage their own exposure to these panic attacks. If this was not the case then no-one would ever suffer from PTSD as it would be instantly self-healing!

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by vonmoltke on Thursday August 25, 2016 @05:53PM (#12362796)
You glossed over the first sentence:

> Avoidance in the form of 'trigger warnings' may actually worsen the underlying problem for people with PTSD because avoidance can strengthen the underlying fear.

The argument is that active avoidance is bad because it makes the ensuing panic attacks worse when they do happen and makes it harder for exposure therapy to work. Your post is addressing a strawman.

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by ZeroGravitas on Friday August 26, 2016 @05:49AM (#12365224)
A trigger warning is not avoidance. No one is advocating avoidance, that is the straw man here.

I repeat myself: "Obviously, trigger warnings provide a useful tool for people to manage their own exposure to these panic attacks."

This allows for simple acts such as taking anti-anxiety medication beforehand or sitting at the end of a row to allow you to leave a lecture unobtrusively if you need to.

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by vertex-four on Thursday August 25, 2016 @04:15PM (#12362133)
It's not your right to attempt to "treat" someone of a disorder as someone who isn't their doctor.
Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by tomwalker on Thursday August 25, 2016 @03:40PM (#12361852)
If someone has an anxiety disorder of this magnitude then their diagnosing physician would provide the student with the paperwork required to delay their course.

This would be for however long is needed to seek the treatment to return to a stable enough level of mental health to return to university.

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by ralusek on Thursday August 25, 2016 @03:57PM (#12361987)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flooding_(psychology)

I had a fear of heights that bordered on panic attacks. I worked out of the 29th floor of a building for the first time in my life and felt like half of the day was spent thinking about how high I was.

I was looking for housing and every highrise I had to look out the window and feel a wave of intense panic. So I chose a highrise, and made myself look out the window all the time. Took some time, but I definitely don't have the same reaction I used to. I'm actually totally fine.

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by xg15 on Thursday August 25, 2016 @03:26PM (#12361739)
If you have a phobia, one natural reaction is to anticipate in which situations the "trigger" will occur and to actively avoid such situations. It's well-known in psychology however that this behavior actually reinforces the phobia and prevents it from healing.

Trigger warnings seem like the same strategy only elevated on an institutional level. So while they do prevent panic attacks, they would actually do the traumatized more harm than good.

The other thing is that people can develop phobias against almost everything. So no matter how many trigger warnings the university put up, there could always be one group which finds their particular triggers not marked up well enough.

Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by weberc2 on Thursday August 25, 2016 @04:01PM (#12362019)
This is a use case, but it's not the use case for universities. Universities employ trigger warnings for subjects that might offend particular groups.
Re:University of Chicago: ‘We Do Not Support So-Called Trigg... by zzalpha on Thursday August 25, 2016 @03:35PM (#12361815)
But that's not what trigger warnings are for... it's not just about mild discomfort. They're to prevent panic attacks.

I'm sure no true Scotsman would have a problem with that definition...