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Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by valarauca1 on Monday August 15, 2016 @04:27PM (#12293156)
Maybe it's just me but I'm more tempted to trust engineers who's day-to-day job is engineering rather then a Youtuber who replaces vowels with letters.

But strawman/direct attacks aside.

In my experience when one engineer is disagreeing with a team of engineers, they're wrong or the team a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem they're working to solve.

Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by computerex on Monday August 15, 2016 @04:50PM (#12293321)
Thunderf00t isn't just some average Joe on the street. The guy has a PhD in chemistry and has dedicated a decade to educate the world at large about matters of science and intellectualism. The world would be a better place if we had more Thunderf00ts on YouTube.

His videos on the hyperloop are pretty comprehensive and succinct about their reasoning. Why not watch them instead of mindlessly repeating the same strawman argument that every other Elon Musk fanboy/fangirl left on his videos?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDwe2M-LDZQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk

Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by mdorazio on Monday August 15, 2016 @05:06PM (#12293455)
How does a PhD in chemistry make you an expert in mechanical engineering and fluid dynamics?
Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by jshevek on Monday August 15, 2016 @05:14PM (#12293509)
"Expert" is a vague term, but the parent didn't claim that it did. Do you think that one needs to be an 'expert' (whatever that means) in mechanical engineering and fluid dynamics to make meaningful criticism of a project like this?
Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by argonaut on Monday August 15, 2016 @06:14PM (#12293909)
Yes. (for technical criticism)
Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by jshevek on Monday August 15, 2016 @06:39PM (#12294041)
I hope you don't take that to such an extreme as to think that every line item of criticism in which Thunderf00t applied general science principles to the hyperloop paper under discussion is invalid due to a lack of sufficient technical expertise.

Right? Surely Thunderf00t is qualified to make some of the criticism he made?

I would agree that there are likely a few areas in which his criticism exceeded his understanding, though I have yet to read a criticism of his criticism that doesn't mis-represent his claims.

I still don't see the specific relevance of mdorazio's comment to computerex's.

Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by erikpukinskis on Monday August 15, 2016 @08:15PM (#12294586)
At this depth of the thread we're not discussing whether Thunderf00t is correct in his analysis. Computerex claimed that Thunderf00t wasn't "just some average Joe on the street." His background in chemistry was brought up to show that he has special standing. Mdorazio countered that from the perspective of mechanical engineering and fluid dynamics, he is in fact an average Joe on the street.

Doesn't mean he's wrong, just means he doesn't have special standing.

Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by jshevek on Monday August 15, 2016 @09:07PM (#12294801)
In my opinion, valarauca's comment is the correct place to start looking at the context, here. V. started the conversation in a way that could easily be construed as an effort to discredit Thunderf00t.

To me, Computerex seems to simply be saying "Thunderf00t has sufficient general knowledge of science to make his debunking videos worthy of watching".

You mention 'special standing', which suggests an 'all or nothing' approach to categorizing people's status and knowledge, rather than a more reality-accommodating recognition that expertise and knowledge are a matters of degree.

Mdorazio did not state what you say they did, they instead asked a leading question in which words were placed in another person's mouth. Further, Mdorazio would be incorrect to state that "from the perspective of mechanical engineering and fluid dynamics, he is in fact an average Joe on the street." because the average Joe on the street, relatively speaking, is not as equipped as Thunderf00t to understand issues of mechanical engineering and fluid dynamics. I'm not saying that Thunderf00t is or is not properly equipped to make each criticism, just pointing out the problem with 'all or nothing' style thinking here.

You would be right to question whether Thunderf00t has sufficiently advanced and detailed knowledge to make each and every one of the criticisms that he makes, but this would depend on the specific criticism and the specifics of Thunderf00ts knowledge.

As it happens, not even having a PhD in fluid mechanics would guarantee that the critic has the relevant knowledge, nor is thinking through the problem correctly.

Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by nikcheerla on Monday August 15, 2016 @08:12PM (#12294569)
Read schiffern's comment. I know nothing about engineering so I can't tell if what he's saying is correct or not – but that's the point, isn't it?
Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by jshevek on Monday August 15, 2016 @04:41PM (#12293254)
> I'm more tempted to trust engineers who's day-to-day job is engineering rather then a Youtuber who ...

Even if those engineers clearly have a financial incentive to make biased claims?

Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by valarauca1 on Monday August 15, 2016 @07:12PM (#12294233)
I mean if we toss around incentived claims then you can't trust literally anyone in a capitalist society. Since they can be incentived to lie to you, and you have to do due diligence to prove they aren't before trusting them. This defense is the home of conspiracy theorists and crazy people.

If you are really concerned with this why are you posting on a forum literally owned by a SV Billionaire?

Buts let's pretend you are rational. How does a master in chemistry grant you knowledge of mechanical, structural, and fluid engineering. If you say they're both Math/STEM fields, then why aren't chemistry professors, and comsologist certified electricians? It's related by the same logic.

Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by jshevek on Monday August 15, 2016 @07:23PM (#12294318)
> I mean if we toss around incentived claims then you can't trust literally anyone in a capitalist society.

Only if you fall prey to logical fallacies. Noting that not all engineers are motivated to be maximally honest doesn't require that you completely mistrust literally everyone. False dilemma.

> If you are really concerned with this

What is it, exactly, that you think I'm concerned about? And how concerned do you think I am?

I can't help you with your chemistry/STEM straw man.

Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by valarauca1 on Tuesday August 16, 2016 @08:53AM (#12297114)
>I can't help you with your chemistry/STEM straw man.

How is this a strawman? Because it is literally the crux of your argument that a masters of chemistry is an expert on structural engineering and fluid dynamics?

Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by jshevek on Tuesday August 16, 2016 @12:12PM (#12298397)
I've made no such claim, and have no idea why it is that you think that I did.
Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by throw1291121 on Monday August 15, 2016 @04:39PM (#12293238)
What about the guy who warned about the space shuttle's O-rings? And that is an example from a conservative environment.

Now take startups that just want VC money with no intention of producing a product, a team of engineers that likes their salaries and you'll get a fake consensus very easily.

Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by Bjartr on Monday August 15, 2016 @04:44PM (#12293274)
That was one engineer disagreeing with a team of managers.
Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by dredmorbius on Monday August 15, 2016 @05:12PM (#12293498)
Thunderf00t's no more credible than your average space-alien-cat in a mask.

Phil Mason, PhD in chemistry, and work in nutrition, physics, and nuclear physics, with 34 published papers to his credit, now he's one sassy frood.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Mason

Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by computerex on Tuesday August 16, 2016 @04:18PM (#12300329)
Are you trolling?

I guess you don't know how much dedication and effort it takes to earn a good PhD. A PhD in STEM teaches you how to be a good scientist, how to think about problems and how to conduct research. These skills are very useful in pretty much every discipline imaginable.

Not to mention the fact that a PhD in chemistry warrants a very heavy mathematical/physics background. If you honestly think that Thunderf00t has the same credibility as some average Joe on the street about Hyperloop/physics/engineering, you must have a very religious background.

Re:How Hyperloop One Went Off the Rails by jshevek on Tuesday August 16, 2016 @06:07PM (#12300990)
I think he's just having fun being irreverent and silly. Within the larger academic community Thunderf00t isn't some intellectual titan, he's just yet another guy with a PhD. From an academic perspective, I'd think that having a strong youtube following is like being king of the rats.

However, I would absolutely agree with you that Thunderf00t is adequately qualified to make most of the criticism that he has made in a variety of his debunking videos. Thunderf00t is doing our culture a valuable service by debunking that ridiculous re-breather apparatus, 'solar freakin roadways', and the allegedly endless water bottle. Its sad that people are so ignorant of basic science that they are taken in by this snake oil.