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Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by pdonis on Monday August 08, 2016 @08:51PM (#12251844)
> If your company takes ~2 years to develop a pacemaker's software, it's not to your advantage to let your competitors catch up.

Why should the patient who has the pacemaker implanted care? This seems like a clear situation in which the patient's interests trump everybody else's. Pacemaker manufacturers should be competing in how well their devices meet patient needs. Closed source doesn't meet a key patient need.

Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by whorleater on Monday August 08, 2016 @08:57PM (#12251862)
As heartless as this sounds: the patient isn't the only person in the equation. There are investors that fund the medical research, a company has employees to pay, the hospital wants the best pacemaker available, etc.
Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by llukas on Monday August 08, 2016 @09:42PM (#12252009)
Sure - why not ask patient for paid subscription for privilege of using pacemaker? Somebody please think of the investors...
Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by whorleater on Monday August 08, 2016 @10:05PM (#12252104)
And in the same vein, why not ask investors to if they'll fund a pacemaker company in a purely philanthropic fashion? Isn't it better to get pacemakers in a limited fashion than not at all?
Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by TeMPOraL on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @08:08AM (#12253956)
Sure. Soon we'll have cloud-connected subscription-based freemium pacemakers that will shut down and kill everyone when the company making them gets acquihired.

I mean, I get the business incentives involved, but I also think it's high time to realize they're getting insane and should be altered.

Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by anonbanker on Monday August 08, 2016 @09:01PM (#12251876)
you're right. that sounds pretty heartless.
Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by HeyLaughingBoy on Monday August 08, 2016 @09:48PM (#12252026)
Medical device software is subject to a level of rigor in development process that little else is.

Exactly what patient need do you believe open source would meet that is not being met by the current closed-source development process?

Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by pdonis on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @12:54AM (#12252691)
> what patient need do you believe open source would meet that is not being met by the current closed-source development process?

The need to know, and be able to control if necessary, what a device that affects your life and health is doing.

I'll give an example from my own experience. I have sleep apnea and have to use a CPAP machine. There is a nice little SD card in the machine that records detailed data from every use--which means it records how long I sleep, how soundly I sleep, how many (if any) apnea episodes I have, etc. This would be very useful information to me, but I have no way of getting it, because the software and data inside the device is proprietary. The only way for me to have anyone look at this data is to pull the SD card out and take it to a sleep therapy doctor, and even then I won't see the actual raw data; the best I'll get is some proprietary analysis report designed by the device manufacturer.

Furthermore, the ostensible use for the data is to be able to adjust the pressure the CPAP machine is set at in order to improve the therapy. If I had access to the data and the settings inside the machine, I could easily do this myself. Instead, if I want any adjustment made, again, I have to go see a sleep therapy doctor--which means I need to make an appointment, which usually means waiting weeks or months, and I need to take off from work to go to the appointment, etc., etc.

It should be obvious how open source would greatly improve this situation.

Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by abraae on Monday August 08, 2016 @10:49PM (#12252258)
The need to avoid Therac-25 [1] type bugs in the proprietary code that are fatal to the patient. Open source in conjunction with a bug bounty would make me far more confident than simply trusting that some large corporate has got their shit wired tight when history throws up so many counter-examples.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25

Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by pdonis on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @12:47AM (#12252672)
> Medical device software is subject to a level of rigor in development process that little else is.

How do you know this?

Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by HeyLaughingBoy on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @12:16PM (#12255639)
Spent 15+ years developing code for medical devices. I doubt very much that opening the source would have much impact on quality.

For starters, without access to the hardware and understanding what it's supposed to be doing, how do you know if the code is right or not?

Let me clarify that I'm not opposed to open sourcing the code, once issues around Trade Secrets are handle. But I don't think it would have even remotely the impact this group believes. The vast majority of device problems I've seen were system issues, not just a coding error.

Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by pdkl95 on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @02:29PM (#12256745)
I don't need to know much about what it's supposed to be doing to critique a data channel that transmits plaintext over a radio, or accepts commands without cryptographically authenticating the sender.

I also don't need to know much about the intended function of the device to find coding styles that cause problems in an embedded environments.

Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by llukas on Monday August 08, 2016 @10:00PM (#12252082)
What happens in closed source development model if pacemaker company ceases to develop one or goes belly up?
Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by HeyLaughingBoy on Tuesday August 09, 2016 @12:19PM (#12255658)
Manufacturer must support the product for 10 years after the last sale. In the case that they go belly up, that I don't have experience with, but it's likely that another company would step in to fill the role. Support can be quite lucrative.
Re:“I Want to Know What Code Is Running Inside My Body” by unimpressive on Monday August 08, 2016 @10:08PM (#12252109)
Well now, this isn't quite the same thing as your normal IoT device. You would need to be Really Damn Sure any updates are bug-free before you could push them, which would take actual financial resources. Open source would help here, but not quite as much as it normally would.