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A comment on Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s.

Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by robert_tweed on Thursday August 04, 2016 @09:03AM (#12225186)
Nice idea. My only concern is that it could lead to an increase in overzealous removal requests, especially if the idea is copied by other vendors.
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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by jgruen on Thursday August 04, 2016 @12:50PM (#12226832)
The Test Pilot program is pretty small compared to the total traffic to the Wayback Machine. The Internet Archive guys were not worried about this, so I'm not either.
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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by J_Darnley on Thursday August 04, 2016 @09:52AM (#12225453)
You don't have to request anything. Just alter robots.txt and you can make the Wayback Machine memory hole your entire website.
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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by idsout on Thursday August 04, 2016 @10:06AM (#12225564)
The keyword here is 'your'.
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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by dingaling on Thursday August 04, 2016 @10:28AM (#12225735)
Or someone else's website to which you now own the domain name
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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by minikites on Thursday August 04, 2016 @10:43AM (#12225824)
It's so infuriating when I come across a domain squatter that nuked the entire history of a domain in the Wayback Machine. I sort of get why they have to do that but it also defeats most of the point of the Wayback Machine.
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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by slrz on Thursday August 04, 2016 @11:58AM (#12226413)
I sort of get why they have to do that

I don't. Can you explain?

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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by btgeekboy on Thursday August 04, 2016 @12:21PM (#12226585)
Archive.org doesn't know the domain changed hands, just that it used to be allowed to show the results but now no longer is.
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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by dragonwriter on Thursday August 04, 2016 @12:56PM (#12226883)
Doesn't really explain why they have to nuke it, even if it is the current site owner. Respecting robots.txt is one thing, but that just means not spidering and archiving the content that is now there. Deleting already archived material based on later changes to robots.txt is a non-obvious behavior, given the usual understanding of the general meaning of robots.txt.
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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by aab0 on Thursday August 04, 2016 @03:56PM (#12228027)
They're not deleting it, just hiding it from public access. Once the squatter goes away, the content comes back.
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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by J_Darnley on Thursday August 04, 2016 @09:10PM (#12229502)
What's the difference? Both make this feature (and more general use of the archive) useless.
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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by aab0 on Monday August 08, 2016 @04:39PM (#12250707)
The difference is exactly what I said: if they deleted it, it's gone forever. If they hide it, it can come back. I've seen pages I cite disappear for a year or two thanks to scummy squatters - but they came back! It's the difference between being sentenced to execution and to 1 year of prison.
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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by infogulch on Thursday August 04, 2016 @08:48PM (#12229434)
Could they not also watch when a domain changes ownership and segment history based on the owner?

Over the time scales that archive.org holds on to data, domain ownership itself becomes part of the history. While permitting someone to hide a mistake for security reasons is reasonable, allowing erasure of past owners' history by the current owner is counter to their stated purpose.

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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by ak4g on Thursday August 04, 2016 @09:17PM (#12229518)
No, because the WHOIS details on the domain can change without ownership actually having changed, in the not-uncommon case where a domain starts out registered by a founder or early employee and is later transferred to the company proper.

Given the prevalence bogus WHOIS data, the inverse is also possible: if the 2nd owner uses the same registrar and "privacy-protection" feature as the original owner, the WHOIS data could appear to have not changed, except for the start date of the registration, which would look identical to a single owner who re-registered their domain after allowing it to lapse.

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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by viraptor on Thursday August 04, 2016 @07:20PM (#12229136)
You set up a website, which fails to do authorization properly. Accidentally you expose personal information about your employees which gets harvested by the archive project. You fix the website, but how do you remove the exposed information from the archives?
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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by Dylan16807 on Thursday August 04, 2016 @12:01PM (#12226435)
Have you tried contacting them about such domains?
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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by sp332 on Thursday August 04, 2016 @10:08AM (#12225579)
Who else would be sending takedown requests?
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Re:Firefox’s latest Test Pilot: No More 404s by Skunkleton on Thursday August 04, 2016 @10:13AM (#12225617)
Content owners that already DCMA'd their content on some third parties website which the wayback machine has backed up.
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