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Re:Twitter's Fucked by adrianratnapala on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @12:31PM (#12174217)
In the US, and in this particular decade it is true that the left is keenest on actual politicking to create censorship. But in terms of the human weakness of not wanting to hear arguments against your own POV, then the right is at least as bad.

I think the difference behind the political fireworks is this: conservatives already revel in sub-communities like churches where they can protect themselves from unwanted speech. Progressives are starting to dominate open places like universities to the extent that they want the same privilege there.

Re:Twitter's Fucked by snaky on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:24PM (#12174720)
Do you have a couple of examples of 'right wing censorship' outside US, let's say in Europe?
Re:Twitter's Fucked by st3v3r on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:39PM (#12174891)
Saudi Arabia and China.
Re:Twitter's Fucked by snaky on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:49PM (#12174998)
Do you mean China

  1. Not leftist

  2. In Europe
Re:Twitter's Fucked by st3v3r on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @05:11PM (#12176547)
So now you're moving the goalposts.
Re:Twitter's Fucked by Someone1234 on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @12:28PM (#12174187)
There's nothing inherently conservative or liberal about being offended and wanting an echochamber at times.

Both want freedom of speech sometimes and both want to be able to block out dissenting voices at others.

The trick is finding a balance. Too big of an echochamber can be unhealthy, too small of one and little discussion about core beliefs gets discussed (everything gets sidetracked by the dissenters).

Young conservatives definitely seem to be outnumbered online, and I've seen them put up walls so they can discuss their beliefs without being constantly picked apart by people with alternative beliefs.

So I think the divide on ideological lines is unrealistic. Just human nature (good and bad).

Re:Twitter's Fucked by ivraatiems on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @12:22PM (#12174138)
Definitely not true of current neocons. They use freedom of speech as a cover for "let me say whatever I want to say" while ignoring it when it suits them.

As a live-right-now example, the mods of /r/The_Donald on Reddit are preemtively banning users before Trump's AMA to prevent dissent, and have stated plainly they will delete any unflattering questions.

Re:Twitter's Fucked by dragonwriter on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:54PM (#12175057)
Right-wing authoritarian populism of the kind Trump represents is pretty far from neoconservatism (both are right-of-center and, in the US, uneasily fall under the umbrella of the same major political party, but they are not the same, or even particularly all that similar.)
Re:Twitter's Fucked by jdpedrie on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:42PM (#12174924)
/r/The_Donald is like... the opposite of neocon.
Re:Twitter's Fucked by michaelbuddy on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @12:54PM (#12174435)
yeah and that's a Trump specific forum and they have RULES on the side for what is banned. Contrast that with r/news where it's purported to be 'news' not some partisan subreddit. You will get banned for having an opinion mods don't like. Not only that but those same mods will simply ban you from other subreddits they are mods for. r/news and r/worldnews was hit with that the other day.

You're example is false equivalency. And what you call a preemptive ban, you'll actually discover that they are quite used to being brigaded on that subreddit and they know who participates. And bans aren't necessarily permanent there.

Re:Twitter's Fucked by ivraatiems on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @12:59PM (#12174482)
No, that's exactly my point. They have no desire to make a concession to free speech. They don't value free speech. Their ideology does not value free speech. My point is that modern neocons (who are really just neoprogressives progressing down a different line of reasoning) don't value free speech or reasonable discourse.

Having rules that say "we don't value free speech or discourse" doesn't excuse them.

Re:Twitter's Fucked by snaky on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:06PM (#12174543)
That's the difference between neoprogressives (Trump) and conservatives (Cruz).
Re:Twitter's Fucked by michaelbuddy on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:16PM (#12174628)
Being banned from a particular subreddit with a particular set of rules by mods of that subreddit only on that subreddit is not banning from an entire platform (twitter) ALSO that sub in particular gets massively brigaded. BTW at Trump rallies, protesters didn't just get kicked out. MANY remained there, and he addressed certain ones with answers. Some were kicked out when it was clear they would not stop distracting those who were there to see TRUMP.

Also, reddit allows you to subscribe, but twitter creates a stronger relationship between poster and followers. You'd be subscribed to a particular person but when they are banned, all their history is gone, you no longer see anything. It's like someone came into your house and took away one of your favorite TV channels, as well as anything you had recorded from that channel on your DVR.

Who is this THEY you keep referring to anyway? You keep saying 'they' like readers are just supposed to know.

Re:Twitter's Fucked by specialist on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @12:54PM (#12174431)
Yup. Notorious progressives Bush and Cheney gave us "free speech zones":

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/free-speech-...

Re:Twitter's Fucked by snaky on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:22PM (#12174698)
Bush and Cheney were much more progressives than conservatives.
Re:Twitter's Fucked by dragonwriter on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:27PM (#12174753)
> Bush and Cheney were much more progressives than conservatives.

No, they weren't. They were authoritarian conservatives. (In the US, there's often a confusion between "conservative" and "libertarian", and if you confuse those and assume anything that isn't libertarian must be progressive, I can see how you'd make that mistake, but Bush/Cheney is about as far from progressive as you can get.)

Re:Twitter's Fucked by snaky on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:32PM (#12174812)
> Conservatives were dismayed as he proposed a traditional Keynesian stimulus which Democrats lauded. Above all, he made one of the most dramatic federal interventions in American history by his aid to the financial system

> Conservatives and libertarians have criticized Bush for greatly increased domestic spending, creating a new entitlement program for prescription drugs, failing to veto a single bill, and expanding both the size and scope of government

http://www.conservapedia.com/George_W._Bush

Re:Twitter's Fucked by specialist on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @03:25PM (#12175789)
Now I'm curious. Who do you consider conservative, Conservative, or both?
Re:Twitter's Fucked by snaky on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @08:03PM (#12177450)
Re:Twitter's Fucked by specialist on Thursday July 28, 2016 @10:37AM (#12180465)
Thank you for answering.
Re:Twitter's Fucked by intended on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @02:08PM (#12175189)
Wasn't the physical free speech zone created by the bush administration when they made protestors stay in designated zones
Re:Twitter's Fucked by drabiega on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @12:37PM (#12174276)
The liberals are who take safe zones too far are the same type of people as the conservatives who view any disagreement with them as censorship.
Re:Twitter's Fucked by munificent on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:22PM (#12174699)
Re:Twitter's Fucked by snaky on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @12:42PM (#12174321)
> conservatives who view any disagreement with them as censorship

What are you talking about?

Re:Twitter's Fucked by exolymph on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @12:30PM (#12174210)
What other people choose do with their privately-owned platforms does not limit anyone's freedom of speech, as the law currently stands.
Re:Twitter's Fucked by MustardTiger on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @12:40PM (#12174300)
You are confusing freedom of speech with "the right to freedom of speech". Me restricting your freedom of speech is still restricting your freedom of speech, it is just legal and does not violate the first amendment. The government restricting your freedom of speech is not legal, and violates the first amendment.
Re:Twitter's Fucked by abiox on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @12:59PM (#12174477)
what is "freedom of speech" outside the context of law?
Re:Twitter's Fucked by snaky on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:04PM (#12174526)
Re:Twitter's Fucked by abiox on Thursday July 28, 2016 @10:45AM (#12180513)
does this book contend that there is a thing such as "freedom of speech" which exists outside law? what is the reasoning?
Re:Twitter's Fucked by ivraatiems on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:06PM (#12174544)
You're right, but it does show an endemic lack of respect for the concept of free speech.
Re:Twitter's Fucked by Karunamon on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:18PM (#12174646)
No, it very definitely limits freedom of speech, it just fails to infringe the constitution.

And a "privately-owned platform" that is open to the public, used by a nontrivial amount of people, advertised by the owners as a place for public discussion, quoted in the media, etc etc etc isn't so "private" anymore.

Re:Twitter's Fucked by snaky on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @12:40PM (#12174309)
Freedom is not about the law.
Re:Twitter's Fucked by abiox on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @12:57PM (#12174458)
conversely, it could be argued that freedom is only about the law.
Re:Twitter's Fucked by mcphage on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:10PM (#12174580)
> it could be argued that freedom is only about the law

Hmm. I'd like to hear those arguments, since by itself the notion doesn't sound particularly compelling.

Re:Twitter's Fucked by snaky on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @12:59PM (#12174479)
Re:Twitter's Fucked by abiox on Thursday July 28, 2016 @10:17AM (#12180321)
yes, really.
Re:Twitter's Fucked by CM30 on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:37PM (#12174863)
Except online, all platforms are privately owned. Hence you often get de facto censorship. You can technically say something not allowed on those platforms, but then find there's no way to draw any attention to this content/those views. It's like living in a company town where anything the administration don't like isn't allowed.

It's a problem with freedom of speech and private property in general, and why some people have considered the idea of treating large social platforms as closer to utilities rather than businesses.

Re:Twitter's Fucked by st3v3r on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:43PM (#12174932)
So don't go to those sites/platforms. And this isn't a case of "things the administration doesn't like", this is a case of breaking the clear rules and harassing other users.
Re:Twitter's Fucked by st3v3r on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:38PM (#12174878)
"Conservatives are ok with freedom of speech"

No, they're not. They're the ones saying that people shouldn't be allowed to protest many things like Chik-Fil-A's support of gay marriage bans, protesting police departments that act like black lives don't matter, etc.

Re:Twitter's Fucked by snaky on Wednesday July 27, 2016 @01:52PM (#12175033)
> They're the ones saying that people shouldn't be allowed to protest

Citation needed.