> Which is very positive for workers.

for YOU! not workers. Thinking that what you like is good for everyone else is rather narcissistic don't you think?

> I rather have that than the exploitation of workers in IT without unions.

What does unions have to do with anything? ... I was referring to the work mentality as a cultural phenomenon. It is nothing to do with unions -.-

> I can enjoy my evenings and weekends without spending a second thinking to get reached from work, and if I need to be on call I will get properly paid for it.

That's what I am talking about. Your work for you is just that, work. Which is perfectly fine. However, There is no way for Germany to ever get a remotely interesting tech scene with that mentality in place. That's not how you foster a startup culture.

Won't mention my overall opinion, though I have some knowledge. Just a warning about this particular point:

"I’m Zach Holman. I was number nine at GitHub ..."

"More than once I had been confusingly introduced as a founder or CEO of the company."

"I had been the top committer to the main github/github repository for the last two years, I had just led the team that shipped one of the last major changes to the site, and around that time I had had a mid-year performance review with my manager that was pretty glowing ..."

"I’m pretty broke after working part-time and living in San Francisco for so long. Even though I helped move a company’s valuation almost two billion dollars, I haven’t made a dime from the company outside of making a pretty below-to-average salary. That’s after six years."

(https://zachholman.com/talk/firing-people)

Why is giving up all your other interests aside from your work a prerequisite for a "remotely interesting tech scene"? Surely you too see why people whould find that a slightly strange mentality?

I see why the two or three people CEO'ing a startup invest their free time, but it feels like you're advocating a culture where they can force that way of life onto all of their employees and calling it "good for startups". Well, it is, but so is slavery ;)

It has to do with unions, because the Betriebsrat always has a word to say how companies deal with their workers and overall policy.

Although I do concede not all companies have them and some do some pressure their employees (like hints about possible repercussions) not to form one.

> However, There is no way for Germany to ever get a remotely interesting tech scene with that mentality in place. That's not how you foster a startup culture.

So how do you foster startup culture, exploring employees with 60+ hours week, promising perks that don't get delivered like in SV?

And showing them the door after yet another FB clone fails with a "Thank you and please shut the door on the way out"?

I rather be part of the European work / life balance.

Healthy company culture beats startup culture.

A unionized assembly line worker for Daimler effectively makes more than a junior or mid level software developer.

One can always join IG Metal or similar union, and enjoy the same tariff regulations as a software developer that the assembly line worker has.

That example perfectly illustrates what's so bad about unions.

Daimler seems to be doing quite fine financially. I guess the workers are fine too, given that they are probably earning a good wage.

What seems to be the problem?

You need a union for this? Do you think the average IT worker everywhere else routinely works nights and weekends? Maybe in a startup or someone with an infrastructure support job, but those are the expectations when you sign up for those types of jobs.

In many cases yes, because it give extra protection to they employes when the company owners try to close their eyes to the law and pressure the employees.

If you are part of the union, you can either play ball, or ask for help.

I get that. In the US, airline pilots have limited employers to choose from and lose years of seniority if they move to a new employer. Unions play an important part in conjunction with government regulators in keeping a safe workplace.

It IT/software dev in the US there has been quite a bit of demand for the past several years, so when a company starts abusing their employees they see their dev team start to evaporate.