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Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by dnautics on Wednesday June 22, 2016 @12:00PM (#11954904)
I worked in the synthetic biology lab (on a different project) while the early stages of the Syn3.0 was being done, and also have paid several visits to chat with them in the meantime. [Proof: first author on http://dx.doi.org/10.3390/ijms16012020] I was a fly on the wall for most of the group meetings and even contributed some unpublished results (there were transposons that were causing problems by shuffling the the DNA in the yeast and I hypothesized the orientation that causes the issue and discovered the yeast genes responsible for this process)

Firstly what constitutes "minimal" depends on what you feed the organism. There's a set of bacteria called phytoplasma which are plant parasites that are missing genes to make nucleotides (even mycoplasmas have those) and they've adapted by sucking nucleotides from their hosts.

Some insider information: Most of the mystery essential genes are vague cell wall proteins. Probably what is going on is that if you knock out too many of these genes, you lose cell wall turgidity and the cell becomes nonviable. So what is important is not so much which of these genes you have, but how many of them you have.

Second insider information, for fun: The "hypothetical minimal genome" (syn2.0 is referred to as HMG in the paper) was actually a backronym because we called it the "hail mary genome" but decided that was inappropriate for publication.

Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by stcredzero on Wednesday June 22, 2016 @01:30PM (#11955572)
The "hypothetical minimal genome"...was actually a backronym because we called it the "hail mary genome" but decided that was inappropriate for publication.

One in-house ORM I worked with was called TFP, because it was entirely written on a plane ride to Houston, and they named it TFP because the authors liked to say they wouldn't touch it again with a ten foot pole. Their company later thought about trying to sell it, with the name "Technique for Persistence."

Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by whoopdedo on Wednesday June 22, 2016 @06:18PM (#11957480)
> Most of the mystery essential genes are vague cell wall proteins. Probably what is going on is that if you knock out too many of these genes, you lose cell wall turgidity and the cell becomes nonviable. So what is important is not so much which of these genes you have, but how many of them you have.

Sounds like dependency hell. Gene A only works in the presence of Gene B which only works when there's Gene C which needs Gene A. Knock any one of them out and everything breaks.

Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by rosser on Wednesday June 22, 2016 @09:11PM (#11958249)
> Sounds like dependency hell.

Random mutations are like that. It's almost like no-one was planning out how these things should work, and whatever did work stuck.

Weird, huh?

Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by tadfisher on Thursday June 23, 2016 @02:23AM (#11959199)
In other words, God writes spaghetti code.
Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by Eerie on Thursday June 23, 2016 @03:43AM (#11959426)
Praise his noodly appendage!
Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by amitprayal on Thursday June 23, 2016 @06:11AM (#11959878)
God writes code that writes code that writes code ... that writes spaghetii code
Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by jhou2 on Thursday June 23, 2016 @12:06AM (#11958788)
In this simplified system, the number of these cell wall genes in the genome is proportional to the quantity of the cell wall proteins produced. It's more of a quantity issue, rather than a dependency issue. For example, having more developers usually results in more lines of code written in a given period of time, especially in enterprise. The quality of code might be questionable but the quantity is usually there.
Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by phkahler on Wednesday June 22, 2016 @02:53PM (#11956113)
>> Firstly what constitutes "minimal" depends on what you feed the organism.

So maybe the environment needs to be changed to support an organism with a smaller genome. The world today is certainly different than when life began. It's probably difficult to evolve the environment, so they'd need to understand what goes wrong with gene deletions and figure out how a different environment could help.

Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by civilian on Wednesday June 22, 2016 @04:02PM (#11956562)
When dnautics says "different environment" he's not talking about the global environment, he's talking about the environment around the cell. A minimal viable cell should be able to survive on water, some dissolved gasses, and an energy source like glucose. Bacteria that have even smaller genomes are doing that by stealing components from other lifeforms.

I'm not exactly sure what went wrong, but I think you're really misunderstanding something dnautics said.

Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by dnautics on Wednesday June 22, 2016 @08:41PM (#11958146)
> A minimal viable cell should be able to survive on water, some dissolved gasses, and an energy source like glucose.

M. mycoides certainly does not survive on that. Mycoplasmas need cholesterol and lipids because they lack the HMGCoA reductase pathway and FAS, so all the media you grow them on are enriched for that (started as FBS, but we found horse serum worked great and was cheaper). In general, I think you need a few more things than just that for most basic life (nitrogen, phosphorus, metals)... Is using glucose cheating? Because you could use light for energy and CO2 for carbon, but that adds a ton ton ton of genes...

So this becomes a nitpicky definitional conundrum.

Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by Sulfolobus on Thursday June 23, 2016 @04:43AM (#11959618)
Hell, we found an intranuclear parasite that didn't even have its own ATP synthase, glycolytic pathway or any other obvious way to generate ATP.
Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by phkahler on Thursday June 23, 2016 @01:24PM (#11962775)
>> Bacteria that have even smaller genomes are doing that by stealing components from other lifeforms.

There are no bacteria with smaller genomes today, that was the point of making this one. I was not talking about the global environment either, but the number of options for what substances and concentrations may need to be present in the environment around a cell is certainly very large - making trial and error difficult.

Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by golergka on Wednesday June 22, 2016 @12:08PM (#11954963)
> So what is important is not so much which of these genes you have, but how many of them you have.

That hints that you could just duplicate the same cell wall protein gene instead, right?

Re:In Newly Created Life-Form, a Major Mystery by dnautics on Wednesday June 22, 2016 @12:12PM (#11954986)
presumably. Or just put in fewer of them, behind stronger promoters.