Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by Artlav on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @02:38PM
(#11856679)
The existing backup is the Russian GLONASS system, which many consumer chips support since the start of this decade or so, and there are two more constellations being deployed, by ESA and China.
I'm not sure how you can test such things not in the production environment. The early development was done with the transmitters on airplanes, but i would guess that the jammability can't really be tested that way.
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by WorldMaker on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @02:57PM
(#11856824)
Commercial vendor Iridium as part of their "Iridium NEXT" constellation currently being deployed will have a secure alternative to GPS as well, their STL service. [1]
[1] http://gpsworld.com/iridium-launches-alternative-gps-pnt-ser...
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by selvakn on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @02:44PM
(#11856716)
And India's own: http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/irnss-launch-indias...
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by paulgerhardt on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @02:52PM
(#11856784)
GPS uses a certain frequency. Use the high side band for prod, the low side band for staging. Simple :)
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by hamiltonkibbe on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @03:08PM
(#11856916)
The nice thing about PRN codes is that you can just use a different set of gold codes in the same band, as long as they have low enough cross-correlation
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by brianwawok on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @02:40PM
(#11856685)
Yup my GPS watch does GLONASS. Have never tried GLONASS only, but GPS + GLONASS is a fair bit faster to lock on to.
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by mikeash on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @02:59PM
(#11856845)
Most smartphones do both now as well. iPhones got it starting with the 4S, and various Android devices support it. I believe it's a requirement to be able to sell them in Russia, but it benefits us all.
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by hamiltonkibbe on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @02:56PM
(#11856820)
I suspect this is because AWS hasn't yet added an API call for placing a fleet of satellites in semi-synchronous orbit
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by dwyerm on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @03:05PM
(#11856896)
I can neither confirm nor deny that AWS is working on an API call for placing a fleet of satellites in orbit.
On a more serious note, I'm excited to see what happens to the NTP pools in the area, since GPS is often a timing source for them. It should be a non-event, but it could get interesting.
Oh, and what happens to CDMA cell towers that use GPS to sync? Do they go off-line?
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by elfchief on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @04:01PM
(#11857326)
Anywhere that GPS is used in a timing-critical application, they'll be using a timing receiver (like http://www.trimble.com/timing/thunderbolt-e.aspx) to handle their time reference; those use the GPS signal (when they have it) to discipline a (ovenized) quartz crystal, so that they have good performance during "holdover" (loss of GPS) especially for short-term outages. In its default configuration, the Thunderbolt-E linked above, for example, will be within +- 8us after being in holdover for 24 hours.
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by hamiltonkibbe on Thursday June 09, 2016 @01:09AM
(#11867674)
A Rubidium reference gets you down to the 1us/day range, cesium gets you down to a tenth of that. It all depends how much you're willing to pay.
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by cynix on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @08:25PM
(#11859152)
±8µs can be rather bad, e.g. for financial applications.
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by elfchief on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @08:50PM
(#11859237)
There is certainly hardware available that can do better than this, but the parent asked about cell sites in specific (and cell sites are one of the top users of the Thunderbolt). You can get GPS hardware based on atomic references, for example, that will do better over these kinds of timespans.
(You really need GPS or some other precision time transfer mechanism for long-term accuracy, though ... there's no getting past that.)
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by Piskvorrr on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @04:55AM
(#11860910)
Well...if you're in that position, you probably have money to spend on failover config. Pretty accurate hardware clock modules were available even before GPS. Not cheap, not simple, but reliable - if you have the need and the money.
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by toomuchtodo on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @03:23PM
(#11857044)
Anything relying on GPS for timing is going to revert to an onboard crystal timer for the outage duration.
Re:Planned GPS outages in southern California
by jessriedel on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @02:36PM
(#11856662)
There already is a partial backups, and eventually there will be three: Galileo, Beidou, GLONASS. Many devices can access multiple systems.
No but seriously, the fact that we don't have a backup for when GPS inevitably shits the bed sometime in the future is a fundamental existential threat to mankind. We should probably do something about that.