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Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by wfo on Friday June 03, 2016 @12:52PM (#11831476)
Of course it is an explicit ideology that many associate themselves with (though not by name, since it's become something of a slur because it's so obviously religious about the "free market" and hated because of this). It's explained clearly in TFA.

Of course, the classic rabid libertarian answer -- any time any economic failure happens, blame regulations. When we free the markets, and the markets fail to provide anything we want (income equality, fairness, a middle class, a healthy society) -- the obvious conclusion? The markets aren't free enough. Deregulate, so the wealthy can make a killing abusing the poor more than they already do.

Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by icebraining on Friday June 03, 2016 @01:13PM (#11831622)
Noam Chomsky, that rabid right-wing libertarian:

What’s called the capitalist system is very far from any model of capitalism or market. Take the fossil fuels industries: there was a recent study by the IMF which tried to estimate the subsidy that energy corporations get from governments. The total was colossal. I think it was around $5 trillion annually. That’s got nothing to do with markets and capitalism.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/09/noam-chomsky-bernie-sande...

--

The problem is that capitalists use the language of free markets, but are not actually proponents of its wide application, just where it benefits them. Or to put it more pithily: capitalists don't like capitalism. So you get localized deregulations and strong regulations (example [1]) where it benefits them. But we should distinguish the cases.

[1] http://www.wsj.com/articles/trade-groups-for-chemical-firms-...

Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by wfo on Thursday June 09, 2016 @12:23AM (#11867526)
In fact, Chomsky often argues most markets are not free because of the massive teams of trained psychologists who work in propaganda -- i.e. public relations, to try to ensure capitalism does not work correctly, by misinforming consumers and making sure they act irrationally, at odds with the healthy behavior of a market.

So yes, it's not capitalism, but idealized capitalism is a ridiculous impossible goal that doesn't really exist because the market incentivizes people with power to subvert and destroy functioning markets.

Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by coupdetaco on Friday June 03, 2016 @10:22PM (#11834611)
Noam Chompsky refutes right-wing libertarianism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NajQTN9qhXg
Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by bubbleRefuge on Friday June 03, 2016 @01:49PM (#11831911)
OMG. Very true. The hypocrisy is sickening and finally people are waking up to it. For example, look at Paul Ryan. Tea Party, no-liberal , yada, yada, yada comes from a privileged wealth family owning a construction business fed from government contracts.
Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by kiruwa on Friday June 03, 2016 @02:33PM (#11832258)
Uhm... no. Him being from a wealthy family is not an example of hypocrisy. Nor is his family business being fed with government contracts. You've _badly_ misunderstood the issue if you think that's hypocrisy.

The question is... has he been a strong proponent of extra licensing requirements for government contractors. Licensing requirements that his family is able to easily handle, but will push out smaller competitors. That would be hypocrisy.

Has he supported legislation against subcontracting or legislation that artificially limits who the government (or private industry) can hire?

It's not hypocritical to offer services to the government. You're confusing neoliberals with anarchists.

Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by elgabogringo on Friday June 03, 2016 @02:29PM (#11832227)
Um... Paul Ryan != Tea party.
Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by coupdetaco on Friday June 03, 2016 @08:57PM (#11834321)
capitalists don't like competition because the goal is to make a profit
Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by Houshalter on Friday June 03, 2016 @02:36PM (#11832282)
I hate how "regulations" and "deregulation" has been reduced to a word that you are either "for" or "against" based on your political affiliation. As if regulations are all either entirely good, or entirely bad. I mean c'mon, do you really believe there has never been a bad regulation?

Free markets tend to produce the most wealth. Some regulations are necessary to prevent market failures like monopolies, information asymmetry, etc. But otherwise they are just getting in the way and causing more damage than good.

Regulations are not going to create a middle class or create economic equality. They can only prevent certain abuses from happening, but you can't regulate "equality".

The reality is some portion of the population doesn't have very much economic value. It's crazy and inefficient to try to artificially increase their value by protecting their jobs from competition. Instead we should tax the wealth that capitalism creates, and redistribute it more fairly.

Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by pdeuchler on Friday June 03, 2016 @01:09PM (#11831595)
Ahhhh yes, the wonderful false dichotomy of "accept the ruling class' protectionist regulations" or "no regulations whatsoever"

Didn't expect to see that come up on a thread about neoliberalism...

Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by logfromblammo on Friday June 03, 2016 @01:16PM (#11831647)
A truly free market has a price for contract killings--including, for instance, the current CEO of Bank of America, or the current chairman of the Fed, or someone like Bernie Madoff.

If the wealthy make a figurative "killing" abusing the poor, the poor turn around and make a literal killing. An unethical executive would have to hole up in a fortified compound and surround it with hired guns, just like a Mexican drug lord. That places limits on how much money you can make from antisocial behavior, simply because people stop voluntarily doing business with you.

All big business ends up being a variant of the Mafia, but there has to be some honor among thieves, otherwise gang wars break out and ruin the regular revenue streams for everyone.

Few people would actually be comfortable with a completely free market.

Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by kiruwa on Friday June 03, 2016 @02:37PM (#11832290)
This is rather silly. You've altered the definition of "free market" to the scope of things on the market, rather than the regulation of the market itself.

Although some free marketers (and many others) argue that things like prostitution should be "liberated" from prohibition, that's generally tangential to the arguments.

Usually, legal arguments about what can be bought or sold are settled in social/political terms, economics isn't really all that relevant.

Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by dragonwriter on Friday June 03, 2016 @02:47PM (#11832354)
Most free market advocates (and lots of people who aren't particularly inclined that way ideologically, but who analyze impacts of policy rather than superficial forms) view prohibitions (and the associated enforcement) as just one form of imposition of regulatory costs on a transaction.

> Usually, legal arguments about what can be bought or sold are settled in social/political terms, economics isn't really all that relevant.

The difference between "social/political" and "economic" is superficial.

Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by kiruwa on Friday June 03, 2016 @04:23PM (#11832987)
> The difference between "social/political" and "economic" is superficial.

If you're including all issues that have economic effects, perhaps I'd agree with you. But I'm talking about the decision-making process.

We don't decide whether global warming needs to be addressed using a profit-maximization algorithm. It's a moral question.

The same is true of slavery from the North's perspective in the US civil war. (You can make an economic argument for the south, but it's still a stretch) Fundamentally it's a moral/social/political question, that has tremendous economic effects.

----

I'd actually argue the contrary. There are almost no "economic" arguments when it comes to regulation. Any argument worth having is fundamentally moral or social.

* How much taxation is "fair"

* What level of economic inequality violates "justice"

Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by dragonwriter on Friday June 03, 2016 @04:46PM (#11833158)
> But I'm talking about the decision-making process.

So am I. The decision making process that goes into "social/political" things is pretty much economic.

> We don't decide whether global warming needs to be addressed using a profit-maximization algorithm.

Social/political decision making is aggregating individual efforts to maximize the world's alignment with each individual's own preferences.

There's no difference between this and economic decision making.

> It's a moral question.

"Morality" is just one subset of personal preferences against which people act to optimize. The distinction between it and other subsets of preferences (like "aesthetics", etc.) is arbitrary.

Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by icebraining on Friday June 03, 2016 @01:40PM (#11831838)
Even if we assume the extreme, almost cartoonish version of free market, in which every possible transaction is legal, that still doesn't mean the action itself has to be. So you could have a market for contract killings - but you'd still be imprisoned for actually killing.
Re:The death of neoliberalism from within by logfromblammo on Friday June 03, 2016 @03:53PM (#11832774)
In a cartoonishly free market, law frameworks are also commodities, not enforced monopolies. Law enforcement is a paid service; there are no tax revenues to support it.

If you hire the Morag Tong to murder your business rival--who has no friends or partners ready to avenge his untimely death--who will be the one to hire Sam and Max to play freelance police long enough to bring you to justice?