That is a myth, the effects are the same regardless of whether or not you have ADHD otherwise we'd be able to test for ADHD by simply giving someone amphetamines and seeing how they respond. Almost anyone who takes low-dose amphetamines will experience enhanced cognition. It just happens that this enhancement also alleviates symptoms of ADHD.

As you pointed out the problem with the article is that it makes no distinction between therapeutic low-dose usage and abuse level usage.

Not sure I'm ready to accept that this is a myth.

From "Prescription stimulants in individuals with and without attention deficit hyperactivity disorder: misuse, cognitive impact, and adverse effects", published in Brain and Behaviour (2012):

"In sum, the evidence concerning stimulant effects on working memory is mixed, with some findings of enhancement and some null results, although no findings of overall performance impairment (Smith and Farah 2011). However, the small effects were mainly evident in subjects who had low cognitive performance to start with, showing that the drug is more effective at correcting deficits than “enhancing performance.”"

Full text:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/

Unfortunately you can pretty much nanny-pick a study that supports your view for just about any purported topic and view relating to drug use.

Secondly, that study is flawed because it fails to acknowledge what is known as the 30%-30%-30% jump. The difference in intelligence between a retard and a normal person is the same difference of intelligence between a normal person and a genius. Different boosts account for different corrections in deficits depending on the IQ range that is being operated on. This is a known quirk of intellect. Being why Einstein sent a letter to his son telling him that intelligence was not the reason he was successful, "working hard" was, and urging him to do the same.

Amphetamines are performance enhancing drugs. They give the same "cracked out" superman effect to anyone who takes them. They are amazing. And we should not discount them by giving credence to the bullshit that is ADD and the epidemic which is giving dumb kids speed so they can live up to their parents' standards.

ADD is overdiagnosed, and adderall/speed is overprescribed in doses that hit high enough that their grandma can feel it. It's fucked up to be giving hard drugs to kids just because the kids are dumb. Let them be dumb. Let's not make them drug addicts at the cost of their mental freedom.

Just google for it, the stories on forums and other places. There are millions of kids who grew up and regret the drug issues they have now. The dependencies. Because they've been on speed their whole lives, because of a giddy parent and a giddy psychiatrist long long ago. The stories show that treating "ADD" with speed in children, is a really shitty thing to do.

>it fails to acknowledge what is known as the 30%-30%-30% jump

Known by who? Did you just respond to a peer-reviewed study with made-up pseudo-science? Also, I should point out that the psychiatric term is ADHD, not ADD.

Oh no, I offended the scientific valour, better shoot me some rigor-mo'roll.

I didn't say the study is bunk. I said that looking at performance differences as significant without reference to the 30/30/30 effect is extremely misinformed. What I should have said is that the study's "interpretation" is flawed. That would have sounded more rigorous.

> Unfortunately you can pretty much nanny-pick a study that supports your view for just about any purported topic and view relating to drug use.

While that's partly true, in this case it's a systematic review of the literature on this exact topic. That's not nanny-picking some random study.

What about people diagnosed as adults? People no longer affected by their parents will?

Then they can make their own choices about responsible use informed by the restraint and experience with other drugs (alcohol, etc.) It is far different, because it is much easier to become wired for a drug if you grow up using it (and being told to use it, by an adult authority), than dabbling in it later on, with a freedom to abstain.

I thought giving people adhd meds and seeing whether it relaxes them was a pretty good (not perfect) indicator? Am I wrong?

That's not true, I have ADHD and I still feel stimulated when I take my medicine just like anyone else would. The difference is that it also gives me symptom relief as well.

Over time you will develop more of a tolerance to these stimulating effects, at least to a degree, but the therapeutic benefits will continue for as long as you take them.

For what it's worth, I have ADHD, and when I take adderal it has a profound mellowing, and calming effect.

I don't take it in the morning for that reason. Because it has zero stimulation / awakeness effect on me, I wait to use it in the afternoon, when sleep inertia has fully dissipated.

And therein lies the problem with making generalizations from single data points. Supposedly I have ADHD as well (I'm diagnosed such at least), and I generally become more mellow after taking adderall. I think the moral of this further anecdote is that generalizations should not be made on either of our experiences. Add into that the confounding factors of human bodies not being identical and having differing reactions to the same stimuli, and it becomes an even more dangerous game.

Even more anecdotally, back when I was young and took amphetamines, it would mellow me out despite not having ADHD. Taking opiates would stimulate me. Bodies and minds are quirky.

I agree, I wasn't trying to imply that relaxation from stimulants would be -the- diagnosis for adhd, but if people with adhd tend to relax from the meds and people without adhd tend to not relax, then the claim that it's a myth that the meds affect adhd sufferers differently would be a lie

I don't think this works as well for adults. People with ADHD tend to calm down as they become adults (because of the whole "becoming an adult" thing), so the environment changes.

EDIT: calm down wrt physical movement, symptoms on the cognitive side are still very present of course. It's just that adults tend to be better equipped to cope with some of them.

That depends on the the type of ADHD being treated and the type of medication prescribed. I take extended release tablets which work very well for my needs. When i was prescribed instant release tablets I was cracked out for a few hours then desperately wanted to sleep until the end of the world.

I thought that was a myth that has been dispelled. Do you have any research to back that up?

Yes this is a myth, it has the same effect on everyone.

Not trying to disregard this sentiment present in the thread, but I could easily see it having the same physical effects, but how exactly do they quantify how it affects your brain processes and how you feel.

Anecdotally, I knew some people who took adderall in college that were not prescribed it and it seemed to cause them to have different behavior than myself. A similar situation, I would imagine, is how alcohol affects people differently. Maybe not physically, but you definitely see a wide range of actions and behaviors elicited among different individuals.

It's probably all about dose. Just takes more for an ADHD individual to be affected the same.

I believe so, the treatment dose is small enough that the physical stimulant effects are typically very minor, even for new users. I don't have numbers, but I recall that people abusing it for the stimulant effect use 3/4x the ADHD prescription dose, which results in very different effects.

Metabolism plays a big role in determining the effective dose.

There are people who can take what are considered high therapeutic doses and feel very little effects because of the way their body metabolizes the chemical, which of course has nothing to do with whether they have ADHD or not.

For sure. I take adderall and have an incredibly high metabolism to the point of needing to add 1500 calories per day in protein shakes to stay at a healthy weigh.

7.5mg (15mg in half) is my usual dosage, but it's strong enough to fill me with the energy you'd expect someone on a high dosage to have. When I talk a full pill, it completely screws me over. Others can take 30mg and be completely fine.

Maybe, maybe not. My education is not in biology or medicine, so I cannot really speak well on the dominant factors in how a drug affects any given person.