News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by PeterWhittaker on Sunday May 29, 2016 @10:24PM (#11799217)
Why is this down voted? It is quite insightful. Is HN that much of an echo chamber for the self-made-person myth? A shame that our collective intelligence would harbour this blind spot.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by themartorana on Sunday May 29, 2016 @10:35PM (#11799251)
I have no idea. I don't fit the mold - doing well, grew up poorer than many, so my success wasn't dictated by my parents, but that doesn't mean GP's post is wrong at all. I upvoted it.

Edit: while I'm sure I'm smart (who isn't sure the are?), luck has a lot to do with any success I've had.

Re:How Not to Explain Success by WalterBright on Sunday May 29, 2016 @10:56PM (#11799306)
> luck has a lot to do with any success I've had.

Does anyone expect that by sitting around doing nothing they'll get lucky and become successful? Do one's choices mean nothing?

Re:How Not to Explain Success by peteretep on Sunday May 29, 2016 @11:06PM (#11799337)
I'm more successful than most people I know. I put this down mostly to phenotype, education, and and general social background. None of this is anything to feel proud about, I didn't choose any of this.

I know (and admire) many many less successful people who work a lot harder than me, who display most of the traits that are meant to make people successful, but the halo effect, being white and male, getting easily bored, and being brought up in an environment where suggesting I could be the Prime Minister one day was met not with derision but with book suggestions were surely the keys to my success, and also the basis for all my choices.

The key belief - in my experience - between the Left and the Right is that the Right doesn't believe in luck, good or bad.

Re:How Not to Explain Success by wildmusings on Monday May 30, 2016 @05:23AM (#11800428)
There's plenty of hardworking people who never get lucky and hit jackpot, but who nonetheless build happy fulfilled lives and can give their children many opportunities.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by lgieron on Monday May 30, 2016 @10:34AM (#11801515)
> getting easily bored

Getting easily bored was helpful?

Re:How Not to Explain Success by peteretep on Monday May 30, 2016 @07:12PM (#11803740)
Many times I read about entrepreneurs they've made changes in their life because they're filled with a deep desire to blah blah blah. I quit my first job to work for myself because I bored out of my wits and couldn't face going in to work. Many of the big positive changes in my life have happened because I was too bored or lazy to cope with the status quo.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by SapphireSun on Monday May 30, 2016 @10:54AM (#11801594)
It's a useful parameter that if set right will enhance new exploration over retreading territory. If set too high, you spend too much time exploring shallowly, and if set too low, you get stuck in a rut.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by LionessLover on Sunday May 29, 2016 @11:12PM (#11799355)
The "luck" argument isn't about comparing an idle slob with a hard-working person. It's about different outcomes for equally hard-working people due to luck - such as the luck of birth. Which is not just about parents, but about ones entire environment. How many little Einsteins where born in Ghana and nobody ever noticed?
Re:How Not to Explain Success by WalterBright on Sunday May 29, 2016 @11:17PM (#11799370)
It is NOT about how hard you work. It is about how smart you work - i.e. your choices on what to work on.

Working hard on non-productive things is not going to get one anywhere. Everybody has choices on what to work on. Working hard waiting tables is not going to help create a hit album - working hard on guitar skills might.

To be successful, you have to have a plan that makes sense, then work that plan, not something else.

Re:How Not to Explain Success by ktRolster on Monday May 30, 2016 @01:58AM (#11799809)
"Don't tell me how hard you work. Tell me how much you get done."
Re:How Not to Explain Success by solipsism on Monday May 30, 2016 @04:25AM (#11800246)
Does anyone expect that by sitting around doing nothing they'll get lucky and become successful? Do one's choices mean nothing?

Talk about a non sequitur. Grandparent said, essentially, that luck is necessary for success. You seem to be arguing against a strawman who you imagine claims that luck is sufficient for success.

You have accomplished much, Walter, and you deserve to feel proud. You also should feel lucky, however.

Re:How Not to Explain Success by WalterBright on Monday May 30, 2016 @05:49AM (#11800518)
I've watched enough other people throw away opportunities, and seen enough opportunities I've thrown away to realize that most everyone gets lucky opportunities. Preparing for them, recognizing them, and taking advantage of them, is another matter entirely.

I know a number of successes and failures. The successes tend to be people who take responsibility for their lot in life, the bad as well as the good. The failures tend to be people who blame others or bad luck for their lot.

The empowering thing about taking responsibility is then you can do something about it.

Re:How Not to Explain Success by CuriouslyC on Monday May 30, 2016 @08:17PM (#11803902)
I would say luck is necessary for fame and fortune, but not necessarily for success. Take for example someone who is an incredibly gifted musician, artist or writer. If that person doesn't put any work into self promotion they won't be rich or famous, but I would argue they would still be extremely successful. In fact, many of the people we today consider the greatest artists in history toiled in relative obscurity during their lifetimes.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by Marazan on Monday May 30, 2016 @02:44AM (#11799919)
If hard work made ou successful old women in 3rd world countries would be billionaires.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by reitanqild on Monday May 30, 2016 @09:42AM (#11801276)
Hard work is one of several factors.

Also not being a billionaire!= not being successful.

Re:How Not to Explain Success by yannyu on Sunday May 29, 2016 @11:06PM (#11799338)
I don't think most people on HN think "luck" happens by pure chance. "Luck" is most often used to describe why 5% of startups make it, and why the other 95% fail despite the same level of intelligence and effort of its team. Another hackneyed/common phrase is "luck is where preparation meets opportunity". In the scope of entrepreneurial efforts, there's sufficient amounts of chaos that one has to attribute success to some amount of chance or luck, in addition to the effort required in running/starting a business.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by WalterBright on Sunday May 29, 2016 @11:12PM (#11799356)
The details of success are pretty much luck. But the choices one makes to recognize opportunity when it flows your way, and being prepared to take advantage of that opportunity, that is not luck.

I.e. if you're not out there swinging, you are never ever going to hit the ball.

Re:How Not to Explain Success by gabemart on Monday May 30, 2016 @04:16AM (#11800214)
My mental conception of this looks like a bell curve - most successful entities require a good amount of (hard, smart, strategic) work and a good amount of (pure, random, chaotic) luck. A very few succeed with a vast amount of hard work and only a small amount of luck, and equally few succeed with a tiny amount of hard work and vast amounts of luck.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by Joof on Monday May 30, 2016 @08:51AM (#11801053)
No. Working hard significantly increases your chances of getting lucky.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by nommm-nommm on Monday May 30, 2016 @10:35AM (#11801523)
That's not what the comment you were replying to says or even suggests. You are twisting words to the extreme and I am not even sure why.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by wildmusings on Sunday May 29, 2016 @11:00PM (#11799317)
"Fortune favors the bold."
Re:How Not to Explain Success by TheOtherHobbes on Monday May 30, 2016 @05:08AM (#11800376)
Fortune favours the fortunate - and sends out journalists to interview some of them.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by DrScump on Monday May 30, 2016 @05:10AM (#11800378)
Only the successful bold are remembered by history.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by drauh on Monday May 30, 2016 @01:04AM (#11799652)
"But the world remembers only bold successes, aka history is written by the victors." --me
Re:How Not to Explain Success by ArkyBeagle on Monday May 30, 2016 @11:45AM (#11801823)
More like "misfortune filters the bold." As in "There are bold bikers, there are old bikers, but there are no old, bold bikers."
Re:How Not to Explain Success by pystack on Monday May 30, 2016 @01:16AM (#11799689)
Facebook, Walmart, and Ford Motor Company were built through hard work and perseverance, not through their founders' socioeconomic background. Building a successful business is so difficult, that the founders' socioeconomic background is an infinitely smaller obstacle to overcome. The self-made person is real, but there's so few of them that they are lost in the noise of this study's data.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by Throwaway23412 on Monday May 30, 2016 @01:50AM (#11799784)
>Facebook

No one denies that Facebook was built through hard work and perseverance, but how many people have doctor parents, a software engineer for a private tutor in middle school, admittance to the richest private boarding school in the country, a (former) best friend whose father is a wealthy industrialist, and a number of other untold privileges?

Using Zuckerberg as an example of a self-made person really hurts your argument.

Re:How Not to Explain Success by TheOtherHobbes on Monday May 30, 2016 @05:26AM (#11800440)
Indeed.

Where are all the multibillion unicorn startups created by people from working class backgrounds?

Meanwhile:

Elon Musk - engineer father, privately educated

Jeff Bezos - landowning grandfather who was also regional director of the Atomic Energy Commission, engineer father

Bill Gates - father lawyer, mother on the board of IBM, privately educated

Steve Jobs - working class adoptive parents (but a complicated and interesting genetic background), father not an engineer but encouraged tinkering

Larry Page - father had PhD in CS and encouraged tinkering on hardware around the house

Sergey Brin - father maths professor, mother NASA researcher

I'm not sure if this has been researched, but it looks as if success in tech correlates with high IQ parents and plenty of opportunities for experimentation and hands-on tinkering.

I'm sure there are people doing okay in tech who had no parental input at all, but I'd guess they're much rarer than those who had opportunities and encouragement.

Re:How Not to Explain Success by Bahamut on Monday May 30, 2016 @01:40AM (#11799761)
Don't know enough about the latter two, but Facebook had the benefit of Zuckerberg being from an upper middle class family in a county famed for being filled with old money (& Wall Street money), Westchester County. Hard work obviously came into play as well, but these factors break the point for that example.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by adotjdotr on Monday May 30, 2016 @09:46AM (#11801302)
Its funny a lot of people discount this but Zucks father wrote him a $100k cheque that a lot of people miss.

I'm looking at my FB friends list, counts well over 600 people, the bulk are from well to-do families all privately educated, top unis, top careers. I don't think any, would have their parents allow them to drop out of Uni irrespective of whether it was the next FB they were building and write them a $100k cheque to get going.

This is an example of luck that many ignore in the narrative. However major kudos to Zuck his ad product has basically guaranteed me a career for the rest of my life. For that alone I'm grateful for FB being invented.

Re:How Not to Explain Success by vixen99 on Monday May 30, 2016 @04:03AM (#11800169)
Always helps to be able to test out an idea on one of the most privileged set of class mates in the world.
Re:How Not to Explain Success by eli_gottlieb on Monday May 30, 2016 @09:13AM (#11801131)
>Facebook, Walmart, and Ford Motor Company were built through hard work and perseverance

Yes, that of their employees, who proceeded to get bread-crumbs compared to the "owners" (ie: mostly outside investors) who did a tiny fraction of the work.