News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Generation Nintendo by wingerlang on Monday May 23, 2016 @12:57AM (#11751974)
> Yet it is a real thing.

Doesn't seem like a "game design sense" anymore than the fact that they have an isolated culture and their games simply resonate within this culture.

We all know the 'asian websites' thing which is spoken about a lot. Their websites look like shit to use, but to them it is simply the better way.

Nothing "mystic" about it, it is simply how they do stuff.

At least this is what I think.

Re:Generation Nintendo by kome on Monday May 23, 2016 @02:39AM (#11752297)
> We all know the 'asian websites' thing which is spoken about a lot. Their websites look like shit to use, but to them it is simply the better way.

To be fair, I am kinda fed up as well of this American "Chickenshit Minimalism" ( https://medium.com/@mceglowski/chickenshit-minimalism-846fc1... ); If you've ever visited a US landing page, it's like it was designed for a five year old. Huge empty blocks of color, sentences consisting of three or four simple words in large type, very few links widely separated from each other, and almost completely static pages with very low information density. Are Americans illiterate or just easily confused? ;)

Re:Generation Nintendo by ZenoArrow on Monday May 23, 2016 @07:26AM (#11753125)
> "Are Americans illiterate or just easily confused? ;)"

Joking aside, I'd argue the main reason for the rise of that style of minimalistic website was responsive design. It's much easier to design a website to be responsive if the content is sparsely laid out to begin with. There was a mobile-first trend in web design, and I believe the type of layout you're referring to was the result. Perhaps we'll find better ways of handling responsive design in the future (better in the sense of making sites that are able to better tailor themselves to available resources without a notable increase in code).

Re:Generation Nintendo by wingerlang on Monday May 23, 2016 @05:30AM (#11752751)
Of course, but that chickenshit minimalist is specifically aimed at "minimal" things that actually has a lot of bloat beneath them.
Re:Generation Nintendo by unabst on Monday May 23, 2016 @05:06AM (#11752679)
> Their websites look like shit to use,

No no no... It's just that good web design is simply hard to find. No one is proud of these "asian websites". And it takes a while for updated good design practices to make it across the shore. Here is a decent site:

http://www.jp.playstation.com/psnow/

And for the record, a shitty "asian" one:

http://www.rakuten.co.jp/

Re:Generation Nintendo by wingerlang on Monday May 23, 2016 @05:36AM (#11752768)
Oops, I meant to write "to us" not "to use".

My main thing was that asian websites have more image-based content and their sentences and blocks of text look more blocky (due to uniformer characters and lack of spacing). I am not saying this is "shitty" - I am just saying that they have a different culture that makes these website the norm for them.

The rakuten looks quite busy, but at least it looks discoverable. I opened amazon and eBay and frankly they look hard to use since they hide some information.

But yeah the PS one looks more like a western page with a different language.

Re:Generation Nintendo by lmm on Monday May 23, 2016 @06:11AM (#11752874)
That second one looks a lot more usable. Reminds me of the old Ebay or Amazon homepages back when they were growing really big - lots of links making it easy to find whatever you wanted, maybe not beautiful according to some arbitrary aesthetic but very functional.
Re:Generation Nintendo by unabst on Monday May 23, 2016 @01:59PM (#11755581)
Regardless of whether it's usable, "reminds" is right. Rakuten is a huge modern forward-looking company, yet this is the best they can do. It's basically a classifieds of clickbait.
Re:Generation Nintendo by digi_owl on Monday May 23, 2016 @08:47AM (#11753483)
As i like to phrase it, functional has a beauty all its own.
Re:Generation Nintendo by enqk on Monday May 23, 2016 @07:12AM (#11753072)
Can you break down what's wrong with the rakuten one? I don't find it repellent at all. I also like this one: http://cookpad.com/
Re:Generation Nintendo by unabst on Monday May 23, 2016 @02:16PM (#11755706)
It's a clusterfuck. And as with the parent's correction, it's less about usability really. It just looks clusterfucked. Some say the Japanese have a higher tolerance for complexity, but they are also known to have a lower tolerance for bad aesthetics. You can see effort with cookpad (jp site). But even cookpad, which is a huge profitable online business, does not have a responsive site, is guilty of cramming content, which is so web 1.0.

Also, if your ad blocker is on, you're probably not seeing these pages in their full glory.

JP Yahoo vs US Yahoo is a good contrast also, though the US site does smell of defeat as a portal (JP site is still dominant in Japan).

http://www.yahoo.co.jp/

http://www.yahoo.com/

Re:Generation Nintendo by hammock on Monday May 23, 2016 @09:03AM (#11753560)
Wow, toggle between the Japanese and American version of this one page and you can see the difference (note I'm on mobile)
Re:Generation Nintendo by xo5050 on Monday May 23, 2016 @03:19AM (#11752402)
I think people talk about Japanese websites because of the difference between the design of their websites in general and the design of other stuff in their culture.

If you look at landscape design, blank spaces in modern Japanese architecture, minimalist poetry, painting, pottery, film, the websites stand out a lot. There is no "zen" in Japanese websites (again, generally speaking). The "mystic" is how we perceive their work. It exists because it's just hard to quantify art and design. We know something's there though. Famous designers and architects like Frank Lloyd Wright go to Japan and are completely floored. Did many other isolated cultures' aesthetics regularly floor their visitors? People don't get that from Japanese websites... we perceive them differently, without any sense of the "mystic." And that seems odd.

I think it's an interesting question (kind of like "Why is the USA bad at soccer?" which I've heard being discussed a lot before.) but only because of Japan's unquantifiable success in other areas of design.

Re:Generation Nintendo by wingerlang on Monday May 23, 2016 @05:39AM (#11752781)
> I think people talk about Japanese websites because of the difference between the design of their websites in general and the design of other stuff in their culture.

I've heard the opposite. Think of all the LED and neon lights and the HUGE amount of advertisements in, say, Tokyo. It looks kinda like their websites imo.

Re:Generation Nintendo by xo5050 on Monday May 23, 2016 @09:51AM (#11753810)
They are looking for an explanation... and that would explain the average website, but the question still exists when you have a culture that produces a Toyo Ito, what would their best websites look like?

For a lot of people, there isn't a good enough answer yet and that is why the question gets asked over and over again.

Re:Generation Nintendo by digi_owl on Monday May 23, 2016 @08:52AM (#11753515)
Neon used to be a thing in western cities as well up to the 70s or 80s. Then the west turned towards minimalism but asia didn't follow.
Re:Generation Nintendo by wodenokoto on Monday May 23, 2016 @04:23AM (#11752572)
The Japanese website doesn't stand out at all. It fits perfectly with the design language of subway advertisement, the free magazines, the urban architecture of downtown shopping areas and the quick and loud structure of their TV programming.
Re:Generation Nintendo by xo5050 on Monday May 23, 2016 @09:45AM (#11753776)
they do stand out. People wouldn't be talking about them if they didn't stand out. People wouldn't independently come to similar conclusions that they weren't up to par for Japan if they didn't stand out.

I think it's because a website isn't a "downtown." It's more like a single building rather than an environment built by thousands of different people. But where is the Toyo Ito of Japanese website designers?

It's true those may be reasons why they look like they do, or part of the reason, but I think it's a question that is interesting. Even if Japanese websites get their "language" from those things, it at least seems like they should get their language from other places also, such as modern architecture or industrial design.

Re:Generation Nintendo by wodenokoto on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @09:07AM (#11761206)
I'd say it stands out because people have a warped image of what Japan is like. Having lived in 3 major cities in Japan, I find their webdesign completely in line with their print design, architecture, popular music and store design (both front and interior) and most apartments I've visited have been a far cry from the minimalistic lifestyle people often associate with Japan.

> such as modern architecture or industrial design.

Except for some landmarks, temples and gardens, contemporary architecture in Japan is surprisingly ugly and noisy.

I think most of the big sinners of Japanese webdesign are stores (at least the examples I can think of) and something like Bic Camera is more noisy and flashy in real life than their web presence.

Re:Generation Nintendo by ZenoArrow on Monday May 23, 2016 @07:50AM (#11753233)
Regarding Japanese websites, one thing I've noticed is that the images used tend to be smaller than those in UK websites. For example, compare Yahoo UK to Yahoo Japan:

https://uk.yahoo.com

http://www.yahoo.co.jp

I saw similar differences in video game magazines. I've only had limited exposure to Famitsu, but it seems to favour a collage of smaller images laid out more evenly across the pages compared to something like Edge.

http://www.rpgland.com/content/media/2009/10/rpglanddotcom11...

http://perfectdark.retropixel.net/pdzero/scans/edge_november...

I like both styles, it's just an observation.