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Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by angersock on Thursday May 19, 2016 @04:32PM (#11733562)
As a rule, any mention of religion on an online forum degenerates into a religious argument. Why? Why does this happen with religion and not with Javascript or baking or other topics people talk about on forums?

Um, Graham is more than a little off here.

Like, by a country mile.

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by jayvanguard on Thursday May 19, 2016 @06:30PM (#11734388)
Is he though? Questions on the most performant way to iterate over something rarely result in flame wars.

I believe you are thinking of people arguing over JS frameworks or whether JS sucks or not. Both are identity related.

When it comes down to arguing the specific mechanics of comparing how framework X uses MVC vs how framework Y uses it, you don't see so much conflict because it is expertise, not identity driven.

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by ixtli on Friday May 20, 2016 @12:24AM (#11735530)
Yes, he is. In fact he's SO off that he goes on to directly contradict himself later in the article:

> For example, the question of the relative merits of programming languages often degenerates into a religious war, because so many programmers identify as X programmers or Y programmers.

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by dang on Thursday May 19, 2016 @08:12PM (#11734837)
I doubt pg was off when he wrote that about Javascript in 2009. If it had been obviously untrue, he would have known it from moderating HN.

It doesn't much matter, though, because the important point holds: arguments about JS became more like religious arguments when people started to identify for and/or against being a JS programmer. The same could become true about baking; there's nothing stopping people from identifying with anything.

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by jdquey on Thursday May 19, 2016 @04:42PM (#11733648)
Agreed. I find it depends on how people go about talking about the subjects.

I think it has to do more with the potential impact it has on us and others. Not to mention how much broad appeal there is.

I don't know much about Javascript, but debates about how to properly use it aren't going to change a nation. Or the implication of someone's life, both now and after death.

People have a lot of opinions on baking. You don't need to be an expert to blog about it (e.g. probably 1/2 the mommy blogs out there). But again, who cares if you add organic cheese to your chili or sour cream? Very few. And most would remove it if not important.

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by dylz on Thursday May 19, 2016 @04:39PM (#11733615)
Let's discuss text editors. Anyone?
Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by snowwrestler on Thursday May 19, 2016 @05:56PM (#11734190)
I like, and frequently use, nano. There, I said it.

Now vim and emacs users can both mock my child-like ignorance of real text editing.

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by danieltillett on Thursday May 19, 2016 @06:35PM (#11734404)
I will join in on the love for nano. If you are just doing simple things like editing config files it is all you need. I don't use vim often enough ever get really comfortable with it.
Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by setpatchaddress on Friday May 20, 2016 @01:22AM (#11735693)
Perverse! Nano is actually more difficult to use than vi over time. Sad, but true. The first time you have to learn the arcane control-keys to search for something, you've already lost, because vim is approximately as arcane, but much faster.
Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by mcbits on Friday May 20, 2016 @06:39AM (#11736795)
I don't think I've ever had to search for anything in nano or vi to get a system into a state where I can use an editor with good ol' Ctrl-F. But then I'm not hot-patching a server over an acoustic coupler from a phone booth in rural Nevada, or whatever hardcore sysadmins do.
Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by clock_tower on Thursday May 19, 2016 @05:40PM (#11734090)
Death to Emacs! It's as arrogant as it is shoddy; it has a narrow provincial name for the Alt key, and it makes you learn Lisp in order to make it handle backspaces properly!

Also, you Limeys need to learn how to spell.

(There, that should get the conversational juices flowing...)

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by jlg23 on Thursday May 19, 2016 @09:55PM (#11735159)
The "narrow [, [sic]] provincial name for the Alt key" is actually what it was once called. And backspace just works as expected in a unix environment.

> (There, that should get the conversational juices flowing...)

Sane people here know when to engage in a conversation, no trolling needed.

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by clock_tower on Friday May 20, 2016 @07:44PM (#11742405)
Upvoted this for the first part (noticing the information while missing the pointless quibble about comma use, which should have been a red flag), before I saw the second. A "take back upvote" option would be nice...
Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by AnimalMuppet on Thursday May 19, 2016 @05:42PM (#11734107)
Well, I'm an emacs guy, because I've used it for 30 years, and the commands are burned into my fingertips by now. I'll admit that vi is more logical and easier to learn, though.

And I don't get "religious" about editors except in jest...

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by clock_tower on Thursday May 19, 2016 @05:49PM (#11734147)
I think that's what it comes down to: vi is easier to learn, but emacs is much more powerful. My current job involves using a very esoteric in-house language, which doesn't have any IDEs or even Notepad++ text-formatting extensions; I'm thinking about learning emacs, which can be programmed relatively easily to become little less than an IDE for it.

(Speaking of, behold another holy war: IDEs versus command-line development...)

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by bbcbasic on Friday May 20, 2016 @12:01AM (#11735468)
I'm a weirdo. I love visual studio and I love vim. Windows and Linux. Haskell and C#. Etc. I more I learn the less I think I know.
Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by AlwaysBCoding on Thursday May 19, 2016 @05:31PM (#11734046)
lol @ Vim users that have to write configuration files, memorize complicated keyboard shortcuts, and install 20 plugins just to be able to copy and paste text between files. It's 2016, try using a real editor like Atom.

(Am I doing it right?)

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by devishard on Thursday May 19, 2016 @06:35PM (#11734406)
I use vim w/o plugins and with the stock configuration.

I frequently have two files open side-by-side.

If I want to copy the current line in the left file to the right file, the keystrokes are:

    yy<Ctrl+w>lp
It's really not that hard to copy between files in Vim. :P
Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by clock_tower on Thursday May 19, 2016 @05:42PM (#11734104)
Yes, you certainly are -- you hateful covert Emacs advocate! I know what you're up to, you're trying to discredit the good editor so that you can quietly build up your overbuilt piece of crap! Atom is built on Emacs, isn't it?!

(/s. All the /s in the world.)

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by ythl on Thursday May 19, 2016 @05:55PM (#11734186)
Atom? What is this, 2015? Sublime is still king, Atom was a passing fad.
Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by jlg23 on Thursday May 19, 2016 @10:00PM (#11735172)
A user who has been using vi[m] and emacs for 20+ years - what are you trying to say? Please don't tell me that I should just use the mouse and context menus, I'm so much faster with touch typing....

[EDIT: yes, I know both editors very well and have config files for both; does this make me "worse" than someone who has not taken the time to learn how to configure his/her editor?]

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by trentmb on Friday May 20, 2016 @12:51AM (#11735608)
> (Am I doing it right?)

No, you're using Atom

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by douche on Thursday May 19, 2016 @10:57PM (#11735309)
Notepad++, anyone?
Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by groby_b on Thursday May 19, 2016 @04:41PM (#11733638)
Yep. I don't think we need to even talk about JS, and I'm happy to point him to a few baking forum flame wars that are epic.

And his comment about the problem being a threshold for expertise is equally laughable. People feel perfectly happy to comment on anything catching their fancy, expertise or not. (Add to that Dunning Kruger...)

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by jdquey on Thursday May 19, 2016 @04:43PM (#11733659)
To be fair, he's not saying other topics don't have their major disputes. Just that they don't happen as often.
Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by angersock on Thursday May 19, 2016 @05:04PM (#11733827)
Just that they don't happen as often.

Again, have you read the spam online about different frontend frameworks?

Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by DonaldFisk on Thursday May 19, 2016 @05:06PM (#11733836)
I don't feel strongly either way about this. It isn't worth getting into an argument about.
Re:Keep your identity small (2009) by brhsiao on Thursday May 19, 2016 @07:53PM (#11734765)
You used 14 words to say what could've been said in 3 or 4.