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Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by drcode on Monday May 16, 2016 @12:32PM (#11707451)
> The DAO isn't actually worth 120 million.

I you tried to sell all Apple stock in a single day it would also sell at well below market rate- Does that mean Apple is worth less than its market cap?

That said, I personally have not invested/speculated in the DAO because I just don't see it as a good opportunity.

Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by Alexx on Monday May 16, 2016 @01:02PM (#11707720)
I think an analogy more in line with the parent comment would be - if you tried to sell 30% of Apple stock in a single day would the dollar collapse, wiping out all remaining shareholder value.
Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by baddox on Monday May 16, 2016 @04:41PM (#11709433)
> Does that mean Apple is worth less than its market cap?

Well, it means you need to specify what you're talking about when you're talking about a company's "worth." Any time I read something like "public company X is worth Y dollars," I do look closely to see if they're talking about market cap.

Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by r00fus on Monday May 16, 2016 @08:45PM (#11710653)
Hardly anyone talks about revenue as being part of the "worth" of a tech company (maybe with retail, that makes sense). The Apple stock analogy is dead-on.
Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by street on Monday May 16, 2016 @01:11PM (#11707795)
I just sold one of my hairs to myself for $10. Is my head now worth a million?

With Apple, there's intrinsic value to consider. And frankly, if you sold enough Apple stock for it to go down 50%, I'd personally start buying. I doubt that's the case for ETH, where there's only early adopters buying it hoping to strike it rich.

Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by drcode on Monday May 16, 2016 @01:39PM (#11708006)
So you're saying the intrinsic value is certain to be lower than it's current market value? I have good news for you: You can become rich by simply shorting ether on Kraken and Poloniex!
Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by street on Monday May 16, 2016 @03:38PM (#11709004)
The cryptocurrency holders can probably stay irrational for longer than I can stay solvent. I'll sit on the sidelines and watch.
Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by c2315261 on Monday May 16, 2016 @03:35PM (#11708975)
You're completly disregarding that timing is far more important than simply knowing that there will be a downward correction. The shorting fees will end up being consuming a large chunk of the profit even though you sold a hundred thousand ether coins at $11 and bought them back at $1.
Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by aianus on Monday May 16, 2016 @10:11PM (#11710956)
> The shorting fees

Costs about 16% APR to borrow ETH for shorting on Bitfinex right now. So if you're expecting a >=90% crash in the next ~5 years you'd still make a profit.

Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by drcode on Monday May 16, 2016 @03:40PM (#11709022)
That is a valid point.
Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by desdiv on Tuesday May 17, 2016 @02:54AM (#11711775)
Plenty of people shorted Bitcoin on Bitcoinica, but they didn't lose their money when BTC went up. They lost their money when Bitcoinica went down.
Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by Riseed on Monday May 16, 2016 @04:19PM (#11709279)
Looks like the #HairTokens announcement will be made soon.

https://twitter.com/TheDAONews/status/732303373093900288

Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by benjaminmbrown on Monday May 16, 2016 @03:19PM (#11708852)
It actually did go down 50% from $15ish to $6ish and recovered. Early adopters trying to get rich = all early stage investing so what's your point?
Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by street on Monday May 16, 2016 @03:33PM (#11708962)
That's because of the tiny liquidity. Nowhere near $120 million was sold, and it still lost 50%. Now try selling tens of millions worth, and see what happens.
Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by dmix on Monday May 16, 2016 @03:43PM (#11709043)
Market incentives exist for it not to crash. People who put money into ETH/DAO and who want to see growth have strong incentives against this type of bank run.

So I don't really see your point by comparing it to Apple as it's not the same at all. It's not equivalent to cash or public stocks but that doesn't mean it's not a worthy investment to make for someone interested in the technology or potential in Ethereum.

What the currency needs is something of tangible value underpinning it and this project seems like a good way to add real value to back up the currency. It could potentially result in some successful businesses and projects which would compensate early adopters at a higher level both in the value of ETH and in dividends.

But I don't believe there is any doubt that this is speculative. I visited /r/ethereum the other day and someone asked why they backed DAO and a common reply was "I wanted to support this new technology as much as seeing it as a possible investment opportunity for financial return".

It's high-risk speculative investments but also a group of people who are interested in the idea itself and are willing to invest money at a potential loss in the process. Just like any startup founder.

Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by street on Monday May 16, 2016 @03:51PM (#11709086)
> Market incentives exist for it not to crash. People who put money into ETH/DAO and who want to see growth have strong incentives against this type of bank run.

That's where the pyramid/ponzi/bubble comparison comes in. There's no actual value (yet?); the adopters would have to keep buying more to keep the price up and to keep the "value" of their holdings high. Not because it's so useful; just financial incentives.

Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by dmix on Monday May 16, 2016 @04:12PM (#11709226)
> the adopters would have to keep buying more to keep the price up

That's a logical fallacy. As a Ponzi scheme is not the only way, nor the best way, to add value to the investment. So I don't think that fairly represents the market incentives that exist for the early adopters. Especially given the context of it's creation and the community of early adopters around it.

As I mentioned in my comment above, they are incentivized to have the project produce real tangible value if a) they are interested in seeing the technology succeed and b) they want returns on investment via dividends, which is typically the premise of a longer-term investment.

Even if a percentage of investors don't fit that criteria, I highly doubt they represent the majority. It would only require is a sufficient enough sized majority of well-intentioned investors to keep the project operational.

I'm not convinced the only way it could generate returns - and more generally prevent a drop in value - is by continually adding more investors. I expect they will put in some real effort to make it work as a functioning economic entity.

Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by speakeron on Tuesday May 17, 2016 @02:50AM (#11711757)
> That's because of the tiny liquidity. Nowhere near $120 million was sold

Actually, more was sold during this period. In just the last 24 hours on Poloniex, the volume was 20 million USD.

Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by rabbyte on Monday May 16, 2016 @09:31PM (#11710806)
You should probably take a look at some charts. Your assumptions are off.
Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday May 17, 2016 @04:22AM (#11712023)
> I [sic] you tried to sell all Apple stock in a single day it would also sell at well below market rate

You are describing a takeover. These commonly come with control premiums [1], not discounts.

Liquidity does not proceed across time and size preferences continuously, or even monotonously. Between a small block sold in minutes and an entire company sold in months, the time component of the liquidity surface tends to dominate the size component.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_premium

Re:Autonomous corporation “The DAO” has become the biggest c... by hn9780470248775 on Monday May 16, 2016 @01:08PM (#11707773)
> Does that mean Apple is worth less than its market cap?

Yes.