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Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by vosper on Sunday May 15, 2016 @11:43AM (#11701315)
They really shouldn't be encouraging people to think of this as something that will help when lost in the wilderness (see the image on the page). There's a strong possibility that there'll be no reception. That's a situation where you need an EPIRB-type rescue device.
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by sakopov on Sunday May 15, 2016 @12:27PM (#11701512)
Absolutely agree. You want a satellite phone for true emergency situations in the wilderness. A good one will cost you around $500 and you just have to buy a temporary plan before your excursion. The sad thing is that this phone appears to be marketed as wilderness survival device but in all likelihood will do very little to get you out of backcountry without cell towers in the area.
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by int_19h on Sunday May 15, 2016 @05:45PM (#11702916)
For most emergency situations in the wilderness, you only really need something that can generate a SOS signal with your location. COSPAS-SARSAT personal location beacons do just that, and the basic ones can be had for just over $200. And since the satellite network they use is government (well, governments, since it's multinational) owned, and reserved for such emergency use, you don't need any subscription.
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by srdeveng on Sunday May 15, 2016 @12:50PM (#11701604)
Plenty of Iridium VARs will rent you equipment; phones, SBD beacons, etc. for less.

If you're truely going off the grid and want realtime coms available there is no alternative to Iridium.

An EPIRB is great if you just want to be found.

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by nateberkopec on Sunday May 15, 2016 @01:09PM (#11701692)
I own a DeLorme inReach - ~$300 device with a ~$15/month plan. Runs on the Iridium network, unlike Spot's proprietary network. Also, inReach devices are duplex, and can send text messages to friends, family, and SAR teams.
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by srdeveng on Sunday May 15, 2016 @07:17PM (#11703230)
SPOT uses Globalstar.

Argument against Globalstar is that it is not a true polar to polar real-time solution like Iridium.

Iridium is the only constellation where you will always find a bird overhead anywhere on the globe (with a ground station relay)

Realistically, Iridium has occasional (~5min) signal gaps likely due to the aging constellation (based on my own use cases developing with a roof mounted antenna)

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by DanielDent on Sunday May 15, 2016 @03:24PM (#11702321)
What makes Iridium's network less proprietary than Spot's network?
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by Klinky on Sunday May 15, 2016 @03:21PM (#11702312)
While probably better than relying on mobile towers, aren't satellite communications difficult with a dense forest canopy? Probably best that people be aware of the limits of their devices before heading out.
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by brianwawok on Sunday May 15, 2016 @07:17PM (#11703233)
Easier to climb a tree or find a clearing than hike 600 miles to the nearest cell tower, right?
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by Klinky on Sunday May 15, 2016 @09:47PM (#11703742)
Climbing a 100+ foot tree would probably not be advisable or possible in an emergency situation. There may not be a nearby clearing or you could be disoriented.

Likely the satphone is better, but there are still limits.

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by brianwawok on Monday May 16, 2016 @09:56AM (#11706256)
> Climbing a 100+ foot tree would probably not be advisable or possible in an emergency situation.

Why not? There are all kinds of Emergencies. Some trees are fairly easy to climb.

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by srdeveng on Sunday May 15, 2016 @06:41PM (#11703127)
You do need some level of line of sight to the sky for Iridium voice, less so for sending SBD (similar to a text message).

If your GPS can get a fix, you can probably find enough signal to send a SBD.

Iridium carrier signal is stronger than GPS.

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by 27182818284 on Sunday May 15, 2016 @07:14PM (#11703220)
> You want a satellite phone for true emergency

Another problem with that is the current public perception often is that their phones contact space. I hear this over and over again. It is interesting. Drive by cell phone towers all day and still think your iPhone is "going to space" when it is loading slow. There is a Louis CK bit about this on Conan's show. I wonder if that kickstarted part of the misconception

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by chrisseaton on Sunday May 15, 2016 @07:40PM (#11703315)
Surely nobody mistakenly thinks they have a satellite phone, and I've never heard the phrase 'going to space.' Do you really know people who believe that? Are you sure they aren't joking?
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by aninhumer on Sunday May 15, 2016 @08:17PM (#11703449)
Nobody thinks they have a "satellite phone", they just don't know much about communications technology, and so going via space seems as sensible as anything else.

Have you seen the Louis C.K. bit the parent is referring to? It's a joke, but the joke is that people are annoyed with their phone being slow despite it "going to space".

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by aninhumer on Sunday May 15, 2016 @08:23PM (#11703470)
I suspect GPS may be responsible for this misconception. It uses satellites, so obviously my phone must have some way to communicate with space right?
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by sunshiney on Sunday May 15, 2016 @04:34PM (#11702607)
Agreed! That said, I live rural and am a hop from primitive back country; have years of backpacking under my skirt. <lol> Decades ago, long before tech, I mastered a compass and topographic map -- and what you need with you when leaving for heaven-in-the-woods. I've never been lost. That's a skill, imho, that anyone going into back country needs to have. As I write this, I am remembering a friend who went solo elk hunting south of me, which a new emergency system. Around his evening fire, he leaned back on his pack, set it off, and the next thing he knew, he had helicopters hovering above, EMT-types hiking into his primitive site, and one very mad wife, who had raced out of her job to find him.

Scared all the elk away...

Recently, the strangest thing that happened to me was having a signal on a total wi-fi phone in a remote area while friend's verizon phone plan had no signal. This was an area where there were no houses ...just miles of land.

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by art0rz on Sunday May 15, 2016 @04:42PM (#11702650)
I've had WiFi signals in the middle of fields in Belgium and France while hiking, nothing around for miles except for a tree here and there, I check my phone and suddenly there's WiFi. I've seen two open hotspots with paywalls, too. I figured the closed ones must have been for some farm equipment or something, but couldn't find anything.
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by Daniel_sk on Sunday May 15, 2016 @06:00PM (#11702973)
Was it an Android phone? If yes, than that's one of the less known but not so rare bugs. Sometimes the WiFi network will be stuck in the "in range" state even though you are already too far away. It happened to me a few times (I could see my home network even though I was in a different country :-)). Trying to connect will fail. Switching Airplane mode on/off will fix it.
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by art0rz on Monday May 16, 2016 @02:48AM (#11704677)
On one occasion I checked if the network was still there when I walked back and it was.
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by girvo on Sunday May 15, 2016 @09:44PM (#11703732)
Out in central Queensland, there's a number of places you can get full 4G coverage when you'd really not expect to be able to. It's quite interesting to have zero FM radio stations, but a couple Mb/s worth of data transfer available to you!
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by KnightHawk3 on Monday May 16, 2016 @12:49AM (#11704303)
Meanwhile my house a few km out of brisbane is lucky to get one bar :(
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by anexprogrammer on Sunday May 15, 2016 @01:06PM (#11701672)
It's a phone for emergencies in built up areas. It strikes me as odd it's received so many awards. Then I learn it's offered on contract, OK only $25 a year, but peace of mind against what scenarios exactly?

If you're on the edge of signal you'll lose data and voice then SMS last. Mainly because SMS is small enough to slip through in 1-5s intermittent connections. UK Emergency services and mountain rescue use SMS extensively, but backed up by other channels - radio, sat phone and what have you.

So I could perhaps understand a cut-down text device, but voice? Hmmm. Even a 121.5 transceiver, cheap and AAA powered, would be a better idea.

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by Klinky on Sunday May 15, 2016 @03:33PM (#11702360)
There have been events where power is lost for extended periods in developed areas. Hurricane Katrina would be a good example of people being trapped without basic services inside a major metro. Tornadoes, flooding, wildfires, and ice storms are other examples. A smartphone would last 1 - 2 days before going offline. Less if you used it actively. It might also get stolen.
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by hga on Sunday May 15, 2016 @03:47PM (#11702413)
Tornadoes

Speaking from very personal experience, as in I was living on a high spot in Joplin, MO right at the southern edge of the "zone of total destruction" when the 2011 tornado hit, one cell tower hit the stack of apartments to the east of me, and the other landed on part of the parking/access road area just to the west of me.

ADDED: I forgot that the "before" picture I picked up (from the eeevil Daily Mail, this is one area where they excel), shows the original positions of the towers: http://www.ancell-ent.com/1715_Rex_Ave_127B_Joplin/images/

From the perspective of the picture, east is up and a bit to the right, the towers fell up and more to the left (counterclockwise).

But tornadoes have several saving graces, including that their path, even for an EF-5 monster like that one, is relatively narrow. As in I could walk beyond its effects, only a few blocks north, and while I can't remember if I had still had cell service while in my trashed apartment, I easily had it once I'd relocated to my mother's home ~15 block north of the path.

2 days later, I think it was, I was able to return, and by then AT&T? had a temporary cell tower running on a generator next to the spot of one of downed cell towers, using a point to point antenna to connect it to the rest of their network.

This characteristic allows massive surging of resources to the affected area, e.g. as I left my apartment complex within 1-2 hours, fire trucks from 40 miles (Lamar, distance by road) and 21 miles (Quapaw tribe in Oklohoma, with which the city has a close relationship) were there and men were already suiting up to search the complex.

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by msisk6 on Sunday May 15, 2016 @04:49PM (#11702681)
I was in Joplin right after the tornado and had a somewhat different experience.

I grew up there and my folks still lived there at the time not far from St. Johns Hospital (the one that was hit and featured in most of the news).

I was working at a startup in Oregon when a friend in Joplin called right after the tornado went though town. A quick look at the news told me all I needed to know and I immediately packed up my Jeep with emergency supplies and headed out for a non-stop drive from Portland to Joplin. I got there late on the 2nd day and the place was still in shambles. No cell signal in the disaster zone at all. My folks house was spared major damage (neighbors on either side and behind weren't so lucky) but they lost power, cable, and land-line when a falling tree ripped the feeds and power meter off the house.

I had an AT&T phone and it was mostly useless for about a week. Even after the temp towers went up (and there was one not very far away) the network was saturated with emergency workers. OTOH, my Iridium worked just fine. Too bad my folks didn't have one -- I didn't know their status until I got there in person.

I'm don't see a whole lot of value in a device like this. Any sort of natural disaster is likely to tear up the infrastructure a traditional cell phone depends on.

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by hga on Sunday May 15, 2016 @05:07PM (#11702773)
Ah, I make no claims about how good cell phone coverage was in the disaster area for the first week, mostly about how it was if you just traveled a short distance from it.

Although I think I recall it not being bad in subsequent weeks, and, I would be using it from the edge of the zone of total destruction, and a hundred feet or so away from what was likely a tower of my provider. But I wasn't using it heavily there, at most for coordination while on-site removing stuff from my apartment.

You were also several miles to my west, in the direction the tornado came from. I also had the advantage of being on a hill, that might not have been true for you.

But we agree in that such a device is not to be depended upon; I'd say at best something to hold in reserve, and mention of affordable emergency Iridium systems like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11701692 has gotten my interest.

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by semi-extrinsic on Sunday May 15, 2016 @05:37PM (#11702889)
> A smartphone would last 1 - 2 days before going offline.

If we assume a 50% charge at crisis start, and a rational response by the person using it: * Turn off wifi, cellular data, bluetooth, other unneccesary stuff * Turn screen brightness to minimum * Send only text messages * Don't use phone unless sending or receiving important message

any decent smartphone will last 4 days or more.

Example: I have a midrange Samsung A5 for an office phone (mandatory company rules). With wifi and 4G enabled, but only being used to check the occasional message. It lasts 8 days on a charge.

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by Klinky on Sunday May 15, 2016 @09:54PM (#11703767)
All you need is a runaway process to chew through your battery in an hour or two. One time Facebook kept chewing up gobs of power despite me not using it very often, and it seemed to be because it wanted me to sign in again or something inane like that.
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by semi-extrinsic on Monday May 16, 2016 @07:43AM (#11705665)
Yet another reason for not having the Facebook app installed. They have a fully functional mobile website, you know, which doesn't compromise all aspects of your privacy.
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by neurotech1 on Sunday May 15, 2016 @07:10PM (#11703213)
121.5 MHz is no longer satellite monitored for ELT/PLBs. That and its the VHF Aviation Emergency/Guard channel.

121.5 Mhz Emergency Channel is for aviation usage only (other than older PLBs) although if you had a multi-band handheld transceiver (in a genuine emergency) it would probably be useful to communicate with rescue helicopters etc.

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by anexprogrammer on Sunday May 15, 2016 @09:02PM (#11703614)
Hm.. Thought it had opened up to a more general guard emergency only freq when they added PLBs to it - SAR, coastguard etc.

I'm not current with aviation any more so the off the cuff thought could be very silly. :)

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by neurotech1 on Sunday May 15, 2016 @09:20PM (#11703666)
Not officially.

Using aviation channels for frivolous non-aviation uses can result in FAA/FCC/FBI getting involved.

The 121.5 beacon actually interferes with Emergency voice transmissions, so downed pilots sometimes shut them off in order to talk to rescue crews etc. without a beeping noise :)

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by ChuckMcM on Sunday May 15, 2016 @12:19PM (#11701471)
I was going to say this, having a phone is useless if you have not signal. There is some sort of "locator" feature which if it uses the satellite locater tech might be an ok combination beacon/phone thing.

In the US at least every phone has to be able to dial 911 even if it doesn't have a plan (all it needs is a SIM card). Useful for having something in an emergency if you're on the road or some other place near cell service.

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by kevin_nisbet on Sunday May 15, 2016 @12:34PM (#11701541)
Actually, the phone doesn't even need a sim card to make an emergency call. At least not in Canada, but I'm sure the US should be the same.

If the phone is not connected to the network currently, it will do network hunting, and will be able to do an emergency attach to the first network it finds. This may also happen if your say out of coverage with your own provider, but can see signal from another provider, even if there isn't a roaming agreement. 911 get's interpreted by the phone in a special way, and the phone will flag the request as for emergency services when connecting to the network, so the network will treat it with priority. In theory, even if you can't be delivered a phone call, or the network is overloaded, emergency calls should still work, depending on exactly what the problem is of course.

It's also something that at least here in Canada, get's tested fairly extensively, both on all the devices we sell, and the network equipment when deployed and each patch.

* my views are my own, and do not reflect those of my employer.

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by mthoms on Monday May 16, 2016 @12:21AM (#11704232)
Yep. That's exactly why I keep my old iPhone 4 with me on backcountry trips. When powered down, the battery last forever so it's a decent backup to my newer iPhone (when I'm in cell-covered areas).
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by Faaak on Sunday May 15, 2016 @12:55PM (#11701625)
Yeah, it depends.

In some European countries (France, p. ex), a "valid" SIM card is now mandatory (too much prank calls).

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by robryk on Sunday May 15, 2016 @12:31PM (#11701524)
> In the US at least every phone has to be able to dial 911 even if it doesn't have a plan (all it needs is a SIM card).

I was under the impression that a SIM card is not required. Am I wrong?

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by enraged_camel on Sunday May 15, 2016 @12:51PM (#11701609)
No, you are correct. As long as you have reception, you can call 911. No SIM card required.
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Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by Klinky on Sunday May 15, 2016 @03:44PM (#11702399)
Up to 15 years is what they say. That is probably a very optimistic estimate, but I would not be surprised that it could do standby for a very long time on a single Lion AA cell, as there is no screen.

Solar and kinetic charging are bulky and cumbersome. At this price point they would probably be shoddy and unreliable.

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Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by Klinky on Sunday May 15, 2016 @04:23PM (#11702570)
I tried a $20 solar USB battery pack combo device and it was pathetic. There are more expensive options that would probably work better. Not all emergencies are during the day or near powerful light sources.

The Ampy Move is $100 and doesn't work.

http://www.cnet.com/products/ampy-move/

Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by bubuga on Sunday May 15, 2016 @04:44PM (#11702657)
I don't know if you're a shill for the Ampy company, but you've dedicated yourself in this thread to paint a utterly unrealistic and false idea of the effectiveness of the Ampy Move gimmick. The device doesn't work for its intended purposes, apparently their makers bend over backwards to paint the product in a rosy picture, no one buys it, and a cheap dollar-store charger is more efficient and effective than the ampy gimmick.
Re:SpareOne: Emergency mobile phone powered by AA batteries by Aelinsaar on Sunday May 15, 2016 @01:47PM (#11701892)
I keep a charging "brick" in my car, and just top it up every month. In an emergency, I could charge my phone/tablet about a half dozen times. I figure that's a lot more useful to me in a genuine emergency I'm likely to experience, than this toy.