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Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by Splines on Tuesday May 10, 2016 @03:34PM (#11669937)
> With that said, aren't we potentially overreacting here? Quite a lot of romances spark in the office. The guys tried it on, he's been rubuked, hopefully he got the point and will settle down.

I see your point, but if you're an employee and you're sharing that "so and so texted me this <shows phone>", what's the motivation behind that? She said she doesn't want to cause problems, but if it's something between two adults and not involving work, I would imagine she would just not say anything, particularly to management.

OP needs to read into their conversation, it's hard to armchair quarterback this over the internet. At the end of the day it's ultimately easier for us to say fire for a multitude of reasons, many of which are likely valid.

Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by ownagefool on Tuesday May 10, 2016 @04:32PM (#11670420)
> I see your point, but if you're an employee and you're sharing that "so and so texted me this <shows phone>", what's the motivation behind that? She said she doesn't want to cause problems, but if it's something between two adults and not involving work, I would imagine she would just not say anything, particularly to management.

I think you're dangerously into all women are always resonable logic there. It's entirely possible, that the female employee, as an employee of a startup, is inflected by the same hyper-sensitivity that plagues communities such as ourselves. Conversely it's also entirely possible that male employee is a complete and utter dickhead. I wouldn't bet my life on either one being the truth.

> OP needs to read into their conversation, it's hard to armchair quarterback this over the internet. At the end of the day it's ultimately easier for us to say fire for a multitude of reasons, many of which are likely valid.

Well yeah, the OP hasn't given us enough info to really comment and he'll need to use his own personal judgement on whether the messages were over the line or whether he was just being a guy. I'm just trying to remind people that whilst we should be professional at work, we aren't automatons and normal people are going to continue dating and bonking their colleagues or attempting to do so and whilst that's sexual, it doesn't necessarily constitute harassment.

Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by Splines on Wednesday May 11, 2016 @12:31AM (#11672671)
> I think you're dangerously into all women are always resonable logic there.

Uhh... seriously? I hope I'm misreading what you wrote here.

Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by ownagefool on Wednesday May 11, 2016 @02:51AM (#11673105)
Why? Your no smoke without fire argument relies on the lady in question not being touchy or unresonable. I'd argue donglegate shows that, despite having an army of men willing to defend them, sometimes this is the case.

It's also poor form to skip the context like that.

Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by nurettin on Wednesday May 11, 2016 @05:20AM (#11673759)
Dunno, I'd kinda assume people are being reasonable by default. That's how societies are built by the majority so that a minority of cynics can find the luxury to make sexist remarks within that established framework.
Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by Chris2048 on Wednesday May 11, 2016 @07:59AM (#11674420)
You're focusing on one bad outcome, while ignoring another.
Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by nurettin on Wednesday May 11, 2016 @12:33PM (#11676780)
I am trying to convey the notion that with this line of thought, anyone could be doing anything because they are unreasonable or selfish. The original poster could be experimenting on us to mine text and find differing levels of consensus per time when HN faces controversy. I could be a bot trying to be more human. Without taking evidence into account, most of society is garbage.
Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by Chris2048 on Wednesday May 11, 2016 @01:15PM (#11677163)
Self-interest/motivation has its own MO. Also, sometimes motive isn't so important - physical behavior is. This is the evidence which can be collected. Otherwise you can't really assume much. Your original comment seemed to imply a conspiracy though through "built by".

This is a little detached from the original context though, and there's another issue there; People are not random processes, they may choose to pursue selfish strategies conditional on being in a system where it is uncritically "assume[d] people are being reasonable by default".

Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by ownagefool on Wednesday May 11, 2016 @07:49AM (#11674370)
Well, no. You're assuming the woman is reasonble by default and thus the man must be at fault. This is actually a sexist point of view.
Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by nurettin on Wednesday May 11, 2016 @12:07PM (#11676557)
Except I wouldn't ignore textual evidence "because women can be unreasonable" or "men can be assholes".
Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by Chris2048 on Wednesday May 11, 2016 @01:25PM (#11677251)
Straw-man. Or possibly framing the original argument stereotypically/in bad-faith.

Concluding you only have one side of the story, is not the same as, nor necessitates ignoring it. One alternative is getting the other side of the story.

I also find the phrasing "because women can be unreasonable" to be suspicious - there is no reason to put it this way rather than "people can be unreasonable"; OP made no claim that only women should be treated with skepticism.

- are you trying to invoke the historical meme of women being dismissed as irrational?

Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by nurettin on Wednesday May 11, 2016 @04:12PM (#11678834)
I did not make up the phrase, just read the comments and the memes and the rhetoric by the OP. They are exactly what you disagree with. OP didn't just say "listen to his side" which is reasonable (albeit dangerous and should be handled by legal rather than personal means)
Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by ownagefool on Wednesday May 11, 2016 @05:11PM (#11679323)
Actually the only point I've really made is you shouldn't automatically assume the woman is being resonable whilst also assuming the man is unresonable. I'll happily admit that the converse is also true, but since 90% of the thread has jumped to the conclusion the guy should be fired, it hardly needs to be said.

Where you're going wrong, is that you're attributing more to whats actually been said, which is sadly the problem I have with this entire thread.

Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by nurettin on Thursday May 12, 2016 @02:35AM (#11681757)
Ambiguity and rhetoric does that.
Re:Ask HN: How do I deal with the first sexual harassment co... by louduh on Wednesday May 11, 2016 @10:50AM (#11675815)
You forgot "actually" after your "Well"