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Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by TulliusCicero on Sunday May 08, 2016 @04:35PM (#11655659)
> Fast forward to now, and I'm right back in the 'burbs, in a house where my kids have access to safe streets, parks, and decent schools.

You seem to be confused. The article is saying that American suburbs are particularly poorly designed, not that suburbs as a general rule are terrible.

Here is Gröbenzell, a suburb just west of Munich that's surrounded by farmland: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Gr%C3%B6benzell,+Germany/@...

In the states, such a suburb would be super-low-density and car-dominated, with all the negative features the author describes. There in Germany, Gröbenzell actually has a population density 30% higher than Seattle, and the whole town is within easy walking or biking distance of an S-Bahn station that gets you to the center of Munich in 20 minutes.

It's possible to have suburban towns that are still walkable, that still allow kids some measure of independence, that do not kill any sense of place. In the US, we've just chosen not to create them.

Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by unethical_ban on Sunday May 08, 2016 @04:53PM (#11655768)
I believe it is the fault of bureaucrats over-zoning. I would love to have a pub and a market next to every neighborhood. I love the idea of the Post Office providing basic financial services such as checking and money transfers. Let's make it as easy as possible to have peaceful neighborhoods AND retail/business in the same area. Dangerous or loud industrial businesses still need away from residence, but other than that... loosen up!
Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by Apocryphon on Sunday May 08, 2016 @05:46PM (#11656066)
Amazing, isn't it? In a country where we are told is all about choice and having it our way, we're put in so many situations where we have diametrically opposite and equally unappealing choices, the tyranny of OR, instead of room for compromise.
Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by abalashov on Sunday May 08, 2016 @07:15PM (#11656484)
Indeed, it's quite odd that the suburban sprawl model is held up as a triumph of choice and freedom, as if the market has spoken in favour of the one true way to build an entire country.
Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by matwood on Sunday May 08, 2016 @05:00PM (#11655803)
This is exactly the kind of neighborhood (suburb?) I live in. I can walk/drive/bicycle to the nearby grocery/pub/cleaners. The city is ~1/2 hour drive though.
Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by Maarten88 on Sunday May 08, 2016 @08:11PM (#11656720)
I live in a suburb in the Netherlands and recently visited a school friend who now lives in a nice US suburb. We both have families with kids about the same age. We compared our living conditions.

His beautiful wooden house stands on ten times the area as mine, with a very nice garden and ample parking space. It looks very nice. But my concrete/brick house is bigger inside, and much better constructed. Parking space for visitors can be an issue with me.

Our kids go to school by bike. His kids can't. Although the school is not far, biking is too unsafe. They go by bus. The school even closes when there is snow, because that would make even the bus too unsafe!

Our kids play in the street with their friends, they walk up to each others houses spontaneously when they want to play. My friends' kids had fewer friends, had to set playdates, and played more online.

The conversation we had confirmed many more things from the article.

Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by notlisted on Monday May 09, 2016 @08:37AM (#11659301)
It all depends on where you live Maarten. I'm from Holland. Moved to a 'burb' three years ago after nearly 20 years in NYC. We picked a town where some of the things you mention are still a reality (spontaneous play, kids walk to school in groups, biking is difficult because... hills). Meanwhile, I know that the situation you sketch isn't the reality anymore in large parts of Holland either (many more cars, fewer new developments, not enough kids, many old people).

The article brings up many good points, but the suburb outlined in the article describes a very specific kind. Having lived in a metropolitan US area for 19 years, I relish the lack of noise, the extra space (1 acre) and suburban life in general.

PS It's a little disingenuous to mention the bus/snow situation. Snow days here (5 max) are rare and typically well-warranted. You really cannot compare a 5cm "snowstorm" in The Netherlands with the 1+ feet (40cm) that fell overnight last winter.

Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by Maarten88 on Monday May 09, 2016 @06:34PM (#11663767)
I'm sure the suburb you live in is much nicer than the suburbs pictured in the article. My friends' neighborhood certainly is. I think the US standard of living, if you're privileged enough to be able to afford it, is very high.

Still, if your house is on an acre of area, that must have consequences. It makes infrastructure more expensive and increases distances. Do the roads in your neighborhood have walkways? How many college/middle schools can your kids choose from? Is there community life / sports clubs / shopping / restaurants other than pizza and burgers reachable without car?

I mentioned the bus/snow situation because my friend told me the school had closed for something like 20 days last year and had to extend classes into summer to make up the time. And both of us have fond memories biking to school for 10km in -admittedly Dutch- snowstorms, having fun. The US attitude towards risk still feels silly to me.

Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by notlisted on Wednesday May 11, 2016 @09:51AM (#11675230)
The funny thing is that monthly living expenses (mortage + taxes) are less than our tiny apartment in NYC. Schools are great, which is why we moved, and cheap in context (compare $16k/yr in taxes to $36k+/yr for a 6yo in NYC private school).

Roads do have more potholes than I'd like, indeed expensive to fix/maintain. We do have walkways (this is not Atlanta/Midwest). One middle school, one high school, colleges are elsewhere (ie plenty). Loads of community/sports stuff (too much). Shopping nearby, but some requires a car (you get used to it). Note: it's actually a myth that the burbs have bad food (at least in relatively wealthy towns on the East Coast). Better than anything offered in my old home town in Holland (I do miss my 'patatje oorlog'). Obviously happy as a clam here. Don't think I could ever get used to living right next to my neighbors again ('rijtjeshuis')

Totally agree with you on the perception of risk. It's a shame. It wasn't always like that. I blame cell phones and helicopter parents.

PS I don't miss biking 10km in my rain suit (regenpak) Gezamenlijk afzien? ;-)

Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by TulliusCicero on Monday May 09, 2016 @12:13AM (#11657572)
Yeah, I'd LOVE to live in a Dutch-style suburb that was great for biking and walking. Alas, my employer has no dev offices in the Netherlands. :(
Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by op00to on Sunday May 08, 2016 @06:07PM (#11656201)
Those tight, transit attached suburbs exist. Look to inner ring suburbs around northeastern cities. I live a in a safe, quiet neighborhood with parks, great schools, interesting restaurants, etc. I'm 10 minute walk from a 24 hour metro that takes me to a major urban center in less than 20 minutes.
Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by vasilipupkin on Sunday May 08, 2016 @05:46PM (#11656061)
Don't forget that US is really big and has lots of different types of suburbs. For example, Chicago has quite a few dense walkable suburbs with easy access to public transport
Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by tptacek on Sunday May 08, 2016 @07:38PM (#11656577)
Chicago has basically two of those. :)

But if you relax the public transportation constraint, I agree: the list of Chicago suburbs that defy most of the characterizations in this post is pretty large.

Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by vasilipupkin on Sunday May 08, 2016 @08:34PM (#11656801)
Oak Park, Evanston, Wilmette, pretty much all of north shore
Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by tptacek on Sunday May 08, 2016 @08:38PM (#11656814)
Sure, you can say there are four such suburbs: Oak Park/River Forest and Evanston/Wilmette. To me, each suburb pair is essentially one area, but I can't defend that argument with a straight face here. (I live in Oak Park).

We also have a lot of walkable, tree-lined suburbs without huge setbacks and, with the exception of blighted commercial drags like Butterfield and Roosevelt, few of the traffic setbacks and parking lot hells that this post talks about.

Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by dkuntz2 on Monday May 09, 2016 @04:39PM (#11662967)
In Oak Park at least that's only because they kept getting rid of the parking lots, to the extent that there's now town valet parking (which is insane to me).
Re:Why Suburbia Sucks by criddell on Sunday May 08, 2016 @05:53PM (#11656104)
> There in Germany, Gröbenzell actually has a population density 30% higher than Seattle

Population density doesn't always tell the whole story. Portland, OR has a lower population density than Beaverton (one of the surrounding cities that is basically a suburb).