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Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by dharmon on Friday April 22, 2016 @09:04PM (#11553618)
If you put aside the "M$ was evil and he is just atoning" arguments, Gates is a huge inspiration, at least for me. This guy finds problems that he's passionate about and attacks them with such ferocity that it is truly awe inspiring.

I'm mildly embarrassed to admit it, but he was my childhood hero through the 90's. Even later when everyone thought Jobs was the bee's knees, I wanted to be as effective as Gates.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by amelius on Friday April 22, 2016 @09:26PM (#11553677)
Also worth mentioning is that, over the years, Microsoft has published an impressive amount of research, whereas (e.g.) Apple has always been disappointingly closed.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by ignoramous on Saturday April 23, 2016 @03:20AM (#11554554)
I think Apple revolutionized HCI with the Mac and then with the iPod and now with iOS. They continue to push the bar in industrial design. They're contributing in different ways. I'd not belittle their achievements. Design principles that Apple has long been following are the norm today. Every tech company has done their part. I don't like this constant bickering, I wish people were more accepting and just saw the positive side of things more often.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by agumonkey on Saturday April 23, 2016 @03:39AM (#11554585)
With the ironic effect that I and a friend were often disappointed by the lack of innovation in MS products (that changed a bit recently).
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by cbd1984 on Saturday April 23, 2016 @12:33AM (#11554168)
I'm of the opinion that Gates hasn't really changed, just found a more socially-acceptable way to use his fundamental personality.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by atdt on Saturday April 23, 2016 @01:59AM (#11554354)
This qualifies as goodness in my books. No one is free of egoism and selfishness. People are good if they subordinate their egoism and selfishness to a higher principle of care for others, and seek satisfaction of their baser impulses through actions that are socially constructive and beneficial.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by chongli on Saturday April 23, 2016 @02:29AM (#11554419)
It's hard to guess what motivated the grandparent's comment but if I had to guess, it has something to do with the cultural aversion to public philanthropy which traces back to Matthew 6:3

    But when thou doest alms, let not thy
    left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
As an atheist who was raised Catholic, many of the teachings of Jesus still make sense to me from a moral standpoint. This one does not. Keeping your charitable efforts quiet seems like a bad thing to do if you want to get others involved so that you might actually make a difference some day.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by simula67 on Saturday April 23, 2016 @03:47AM (#11554608)
Here is the preceding verse, Mathew 6:2

"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full."

I think what Jesus meant was that letting others know was not the problem, but giving alms for the sake of being honored by others. These good deeds were not done out of mercy for fellow human beings, but to improve their stature in society.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by nothrabannosir on Saturday April 23, 2016 @05:15AM (#11554802)
And what people are trying to say is: that may be a bad thing, but it does not cancel out the good thing you did. You now did both a good and a bad thing. Not just a bad thing.

We try to judge people based on their actions. Someone messes up and defends themselves with "I was only trying to help!" - "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."[0] The fact that proverb exists at all, means that our society has at least a partial inclination towards judging people on their actions, regardless of intention.

Well, if that applies in the "mean good, do bad = bad" case, then it should apply symmetrically in the "mean bad, do good = good" case.

Concretely: Bill Gates does some good. Someone says: he's only doing it to atone. So it doesn't count. --- the first part is not the problem, but the second part is. He still did good, and it still counts. Hate his character all you want, but he did good. Don't use his character to detract from his actions.

[0] There's even a Wikipedia page about it; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_road_to_hell_is_paved_with...

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by Retric on Saturday April 23, 2016 @08:24AM (#11555248)
There is a view that good actions only count if there is sacrifice. As he still has 30+ billion the net impact of his giving at a personal level was Zero. Hell, he said several times he did not like being the worlds richest person. So, arguably he may have been acting in a completly selfish fasion.

Consider a Pimp finds out he can londer money and find new girls by setting up a homeless shelter. Is setting up the shelter a good action?

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by PakG1 on Saturday April 23, 2016 @09:59AM (#11555534)
The analogy is poor. The argument being discussed is whether Bill did something bad and uses the results to fuel the good he does in order to atone for his bad. In your analogy, the pimp does something good and uses it to fuel the bad he does.

For the record, Bill's business practices sucked, but there's no denying that he had better vision for tech than the monster of his day, IBM. Each age has its villain, each of which has been far from what the world considers to be truly evil.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by Retric on Saturday April 23, 2016 @10:48AM (#11555730)
I think you missed the connection. Gates did not want to be the richest person in the world any more. Giving that money to charity was a socially acceptable way of doing so. Thus, it may have been a selfish action with a net positive outcome.

The pimps homeless shelter might also be a net positive impact. It seems far more selfish.

Alternatively it may have started Gates down a different path which changed his mindset. I can't know as this is all internal. The point is some people feel the internal reasoning is just as important as the outcome.

PS: This is one of the reasons the law cares about internal reasoning not just outcomes.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by agumonkey on Saturday April 23, 2016 @03:41AM (#11554587)
You have a point, but I'd say it's only try to say to avoid doing it for your own benefit.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by FeepingCreature on Saturday April 23, 2016 @04:10AM (#11554663)
Wow. It's not often you find a situation where straight-up capitalism is morally superior to Jesus. You do charity for recognition and your own ego? Awesome. Rock on, dude.

The important thing is that the charity gets done.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by specialist on Saturday April 23, 2016 @03:22AM (#11554559)
Presbyterian here. We were taught you can't buy your way into Heaven. Yes, donate to charity. But don't publicly congratulate yourself.

I've worked to overcome my WASP reluctance to talk about money. As a geek, we should be comparing salaries. As an activist, to be effective you need resources, which is a nice proxy for buy-in, so you learn how to ask for money.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by chongli on Saturday April 23, 2016 @01:27PM (#11556455)
Yes, donate to charity. But don't publicly congratulate yourself.

Yes, and this is the concept I take issue with. If Bill Gates's continued public dialogue over his charitable actions convinces other billionaires to join the cause, how is that anything other than a net positive? He may yet succeed in wiping out malaria when he might not have succeeded had he kept quiet.

The goal of any charitable act should be to make your charity obsolete. Quiet, private giving in small amounts without a coordinated plan does not accomplish that. It merely serves to feed somebody for another day.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by specialist on Monday April 25, 2016 @06:11PM (#11567799)
I believe we're in agreement. I only mention my upbringing to note that Protestants had their own reasons for keeping their charity private and just how hard it is change one's early indoctrination.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by thaumasiotes on Saturday April 23, 2016 @02:40AM (#11554458)
Well, the point of the teaching is to allow other people, not the person doing alms, to know that money for philanthropy is coming out of the rich guy's "charity" budget rather than his "public relations" budget.

This is misguided, but it's not hard to understand where the idea came from.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by bcook on Friday April 22, 2016 @10:46PM (#11553882)
Even if Microsoft was evil, Gates is still an inspiration to me.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by peteretep on Saturday April 23, 2016 @02:44AM (#11554473)
Because Microsoft was evil, Gates is an inspiration to me.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by ooooo00000 on Saturday April 23, 2016 @04:25AM (#11554701)
Why?
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by nurb on Saturday April 23, 2016 @04:46AM (#11554747)
I think it means that he is an inspiration for money drove minds.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by sametmax on Saturday April 23, 2016 @07:45AM (#11555144)
Because my aunt stopped beating his child after 15 years and started to work in a dog shelter, she is an inspiration to me ?

Err... no.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by forgetsusername on Saturday April 23, 2016 @08:38AM (#11555297)
>Because my aunt stopped beating his child

It's beyond ridiculous to compare anything that Gates did to physical violence. He had a few vicious, harmful business tactics. His overall benefit to society, especially if you include his philanthropic work, is likely beyond what most people here will ever achieve.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by sametmax on Saturday April 23, 2016 @11:54AM (#11556043)
People died because Gate financed the green revolution in Africa.

System were corrupt because of him.

Next to that, beating one child is less harm, not matter how awful it is.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by bcook on Saturday April 23, 2016 @09:11PM (#11558139)
I dunno if it's rediculous... anyone who struggles to improve theirself should be applauded.

Some of us are innately more immoral/moral.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by sametmax on Saturday April 23, 2016 @07:43AM (#11555133)
And that's a big problem: you are willing to ignore 30 years of bad behavior because now he changed is marketting strategy.

Even if he is doing good now (debatable, but for the sake of argument let's say he is), it's a good forget the past. As a society, we need to remember, and we need to stand against it, not praise a bad guy as soon as he start not acting bad.

If (and it's a big if), he is doing good right now, it's just normal. It's what he was supposed to be doing from the begining. There is nothing special here, except somebody less misbehaving.

It's like when a pop star stops coke. He/she get praises. What the heck ? Most people just don't do coke. You stop ? Good for you. Now let me read actual news.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by mblode on Saturday April 23, 2016 @08:57AM (#11555358)
Bill Gates reminds me a lot of John D. Rockefeller. He had earned $260 billion (adjusted for inflation) through standard oil and is said to be a ruthless business man. However, in the second half of his life, he turned to philanthropy and created a contrastingly positive image in the public's eye. I'm not sure the depth of their similarities but this is what it seems like to me on a surface level.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by WalterBright on Saturday April 23, 2016 @04:11PM (#11557208)
> and is said to be a ruthless business man.

Rockefeller reduced the price of kerosene by 70% over the years he ran SO, thus (literally) fueling the industrial expansion of America, and making cheap kerosene available to everyone.

To say that benefitted nobody but him is ridiculous. Read "Titan" by Chernow.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by tunap on Saturday April 23, 2016 @10:18AM (#11555613)
Mobsters, thieves & politicians tend to do "good" after getting caught for malfeasance, too. WG didn't get "caught", he(MS) gamed the system, incorporated others' work & ruined most competitors. Now he gets to live with his conscience.

Extend. Embrace. Extinguish. Atone.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by WalterBright on Saturday April 23, 2016 @04:13PM (#11557221)
If you read "In Search of Stupidity" by Chapman, you'll see that most of his competitors ruined themselves all by themselves.

It's not easy to run a successful business. My own, Zortech, would have been far more successful if I'd had half a brain instead of only a quarter of one.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by prodigal_erik on Friday April 22, 2016 @09:38PM (#11553696)
If we put aside that the money isn't his, he kneecapped better products with such ferocity that a generation later our industry is still struggling to make up for the lost progress.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by WalterBright on Saturday April 23, 2016 @04:16PM (#11557234)
> lost progress

Actually, MS-DOS was the first more or less standardized platform across diverse computers, which enabled software developers to develop for a market several orders of magnitude larger than what had existed before. The result was an explosion of software being developed.

I don't see how this retarded progress.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by prodigal_erik on Sunday April 24, 2016 @03:31PM (#11560981)
Both CP/M and MS-DOS enabled portable code that runs on various hardware, but devs wrote software that required PC-compatible hardware anyway because sometimes it was a lot faster to bypass the OS.

MS got market share by being cheaper, and once the network effect was in their favor they kept it by threatening OEMs who dared sell anything else to willing customers.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by JoeAltmaier on Sunday April 24, 2016 @03:36PM (#11561003)
CP/M and MS-DOS weren't really an 'operating system' in the sense that they didn't mediate application access to system resources. They didn't let two apps share even fundamental devices like the clock, timer interrupts, networks, serial ports and on and on. In fact they didn't support multiple apps much at all.

I would call both of them 'monitors' or something. Operating System is way to ambitious a name for what they did.

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by philliphaydon on Saturday April 23, 2016 @02:22AM (#11554398)
The FDA, CDC, American Government, and Patent System, have all crippled progress far more than Bill Gates or Microsoft ever did.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by mcguire on Saturday April 23, 2016 @08:23AM (#11555244)
That he is not literally Hitler is a pretty damning complement.

(CDC? Really?)

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by erikpukinskis on Saturday April 23, 2016 @04:42AM (#11554738)
How is that germain?

THREAD OF CONVERSATION: Bill Gates is a murderer!

PHILLIP HAYDRON: Jeffrey Dahmer has murdered far more than he ever did!

Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by jacquesm on Saturday April 23, 2016 @03:05AM (#11554517)
SCO
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by jack9 on Saturday April 23, 2016 @03:06AM (#11554518)
That's debatable.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by kaoD on Saturday April 23, 2016 @06:20AM (#11554943)
Then debate it, I'm interested in your perspective. Saying "that's debatable" adds nothing to the conversation and essentially means "I don't agree".
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by n72 on Saturday April 23, 2016 @04:32AM (#11554715)
In the sense that everything is debatable, yes.
Re:Bill Gates' Philanthropic Impact Put in Perspective by tingol on Saturday April 23, 2016 @08:41AM (#11555300)
Tu quoque?