News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by acqq on Thursday April 21, 2016 @07:41AM (#11541234)
> 2060: "Oh yeah, everyone used to carry around little electromagnetic devices and put them next to their brain, but we know better now".

This one is easy to debunk: look at the spectrum:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_spectrum

UV and everything in that direction: dangerous.

Infrared and everything in that direction: not dangerous.

The Sun emits on both sides, and we really know very good which side we have to protect us from.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by grecy on Thursday April 21, 2016 @07:42AM (#11541249)
You're missing the entire point.

You think it's safe by 2016 standards, in the same way we thought lead in gas, or agent orange was safe by the standards of those years.

In 50 years we'll know a lot more than we do now, and hindsight will be a magical thing.

By 2060 standards, we're downright uneducated. Think about how little we knew in the late 1960's, and the stupid stuff that was done based on "we know what we're doing"

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by acqq on Thursday April 21, 2016 @07:53AM (#11541310)
We already know now much more than we apply. Global warming is the most obvious example. It's true, the hypothetical people in 50 years will consider the current and earlier generations barbarian in their approach to the use of the fossil fuels. But we actually even now know fantastically good the exact effects the electromagnetic waves, and that at least since 1905 work of Einstein for which he received Nobel prize. So there was a lot of time already to check if we got that wrong. Don't worry about a few watts your phone produces, worry about the Sun and anything that produces that kind of radiation (or worse, but in that direction), the one which is on the opposite side of the radio waves and visible light and the one for which we know exactly how damaging it is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thymine_dimers

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultraviolet_index

Regarding lead poisoning, it was since forever known that lead is poisonous, the "safe level" was something that was better established in last 50 years and enforced by better policies. There's no parallel for infrared and radio waves (that is, lower frequencies and energies of photons) but there is for UV or gamma rays (that is, higher frequencies and energies of photons).

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by saulrh on Thursday April 21, 2016 @09:38AM (#11541994)
Part of the problem with this idea is that your cell phone exposes your brain to trivial quantities of EM radiation in both absolute and relative terms. If EM in that spectrum had any kind of effect, we'd have seen it long since in people that live near radio masts, people that work with radar units and radio transmitters (military, mostly), people that sleep next to their wifi modems, people working in electrical generator rooms and physics labs, and people with old microwave ovens. Ever had a house where the WiFi would cut out when someone nuked a pizza? Standing near that is way worse than your cell phone. You can't even claim long-term effects, because we've been working with radios and microwaves of this strength in these frequencies for 70+ years. There's nothing there. Please stop with the fear mongering, or at least pick something more likely to be a problem. Maybe the effect of switching from memorization to Google assisted indexization, or long-term psychological effects of social networks in relation to Dunbar's number, or sugar substitutes and gut flora. All of those are reasonable "whoops" sites. Cell phones giving you cancer isn't a potential whoops.
Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by grecy on Thursday April 21, 2016 @09:55AM (#11542126)
Again, you miss the point.

The certainty with which you make these statements is the exact same certainty that scientists 50 or 100 years ago used to justify doing all kinds of shit we now know caused unforeseen harm.

Don't focus on the one example I gave, focus on that fact that we continually mess with stuff we don't understand, with consequences we can't comprehend. Then 50 years later we just say "we know better now" and proceed to mess it all up in different ways. Repeat.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by saulrh on Thursday April 21, 2016 @05:12PM (#11545376)
So what do you want to do instead? Do you intend to only do things that we know are safe? If so, how do you intend to prove anything to be absolutely safe? Or, if not, do you intend to do things that we're "pretty sure" are safe, or things that seem to be the least dangerous? Because, the way you're thinking, absolutely anything could have catastrophic results, and you don't give us any useful way to differentiate between stuff we should be doing and stuff we shouldn't be doing.

Of course, I doubt that any of that went through your head. You just pointed at something that caught your attention, completely failing to consider all of the other things that are likely similarly dangerous like aluminum cans, pickled vegetables, soap, clothing, light bulbs, the English language, and so on and so forth. All of those are just as potentially dangerous as cell phones.

I think that you would be well served by studying epistemology, philosophy of science, and rational utilitarianism. I believe that you will find some ideas that will be useful to to you in the future.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by imakesnowflakes on Thursday April 21, 2016 @10:30AM (#11542396)
I agree with you.

But you will provoke people by saying things like this. I have been heavily down voted else in this thread for saying something like this

I guess it is because people have great difficulty in looking from outside their current time frame. For example, people always thing that they are living in "modern times".

We were living in modern times in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, just like we are living in modern times now. People find it hard to comprehend that their times will once be old, and their beliefs and assumptions about the world obsolete, and their scientists proved wrong. It just does not occur to them.

This might be giving some kind of false belief that we know nearly all there is to know, which lead to fallacies like the parent comment. He implies we know all there is to know about the exposure to radiation.

A quote from Mark twain comes to mind.

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so"

Human beings should learn to be modest. How small we are, and how little we know. Then may be we will proceed with more caution and be less reckless with imposing our will upon the other living things on this planet...

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by gohrt on Thursday April 21, 2016 @10:05AM (#11542201)
Maybe in 2060 we'll discover that NOT radiating our brains was killing us. You can't just arbitrarily guess which things are dangerous -- you have to raise legitimate scientific questions.

It's amazing we're not all dead yet, isn't it? messing with everything like we have, vastly extending expected lifespan and years of health...

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by grecy on Thursday April 21, 2016 @10:42AM (#11542479)
> It's amazing we're not all dead yet, isn't it?

Tens of thousands of living things that used to call this planet home are extinct thanks to our meddling. I'd say that's proof enough we're badly f'ing things up.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by acqq on Sunday April 24, 2016 @03:24PM (#11560963)
> Tens of thousands ... are extinct thanks to our meddling.

Probably much more:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

"the present rate of extinction may be up to 140,000 species per year,[2] making it the greatest loss of biodiversity since the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event."

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by acqq on Thursday April 21, 2016 @10:40AM (#11542467)
The problem with your "point" isn't the point itself, it's that you demonstrate illiteracy in the science of the last 100 years or more while making your point. There were always the limits of what we know, but we also got better in knowing where the limits are, and they aren't in the infrared and radio area effects.

We (as humanity) do "mess with the stuff" and we (as in scientists) even know exactly where and how much we (as in "political and economic forces") do that. The amount of fossil fuels use is one good example. And having huge nuclear stockpiles ready for launch is another. And we "know better" (as in knowing that the effects won't be desirable for "us") even now, but look how many forces pretend we don't.

Having basic scientific literacy actually matters, otherwise you'll fall worrying for pure distractions, like "you should worry that mobile phones emit radio waves to your brain." No, either forget it, that's pure distraction, or at least, learn a little of physics, you'll benefit from that.

And we don't have to wait 50 years. We already know the exact problems that will be much bigger in 50 years if we don't act.