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Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by hibikir on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @01:50PM (#11536276)
Mosquitos aren't about unpleasantness though: It is a vector for deadly disease in the tropics. We are talking hundreds of thousands of deaths a year.

Now, getting rid of all of them might not be the smartest idea: it carries plenty of risk, but to say that they are just unpleasant is a major understatement.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by SimpleXYZ on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @02:58PM (#11536817)
Exactly, we are talking about millions of people if you go back a few thousand years.
Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by sportanova on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @03:47PM (#11537201)
Millions of people if you go back a few years
Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by ommunist on Thursday April 21, 2016 @12:26AM (#11539690)
You know, mathematically speaking, each of us had about 20 million ancestors, if we go back in time. All of them dead now. So what?
Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by lucideer on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @02:13PM (#11536464)
This could easily be framed as a misattribution of cause though.

Mosquitos occur world-wide, and even flourish in many climates where rates of infection from mosquito-borne diseases are relatively low. As an example, 90% of deaths from Malaria occur in sub-Saharan Africa, and even there, the likelihood of death from infection is radically lower for western visitors than for locals.

These diseases are largely a result of poverty and poor access to healthcare, not of mosquitos.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by rimantas on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @02:18PM (#11536521)
So we get as many cases of malaria in Europe, just nobody dies from it? Or maybe it does indeed has something to do with mosquitos after all?
Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by soundwave106 on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @03:55PM (#11537261)
The WHO recently declared Europe "malaria free". http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-health-europe-malaria-idUKK...

It seems that at least some of the reason why malaria is so prevalent in sub-Sahara Africa has to do with poor housing, poor management of drainage / sewers, and poor roads.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jtm/2012/819563/

I'm not ruling out eliminating mosquitoes per se, but the United States and Europe managed to largely eliminate malaria in the 1930s-1940s without eliminating mosquitoes. So before I'd start advocating the elimination of entire subsets of species, I'd ask how the US and Europe were successful in their efforts, and wonder why we can't apply those lessons to the rest of the world. Maybe the money spent in targeting the elimination of mosquitoes (which cause a lot of problems) would be better spent in general health and sanitation (the lack of which also causes a lot of problems), for instance.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by kpil on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @03:09PM (#11536905)
There was malaria in Sweden a couple of hundred years ago, and we still have a few mosquitos. It was never a big problem but malaria went away when it couldn't spread efficiently, largely because of better houses and hygiene such as not keeping the cattle in the same house (room) as the people. Also a lot of breeding ground was dried out and converted to farm land.

I'm all for releasing CRISPR on the worst species of mosquitos though. And ticks. They can't serve any function other than killing a few persons each year due to TBE.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by charlieflowers on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @06:05PM (#11538102)
It's sad when a chain of logical reasoning points out (again) how weird it is that we cannot solve the real problem, which is "Why is there a third world in the first place?"

Why does there have to be a region in permanent squalor? Why can't every place on earth where civilization exists be a decent place for humans to live, with peace, opportunity and sanitation?

But ... back down to earth. Since we can't fix that larger problem, at least maybe we can stop malaria by killing all the mosquitoes.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by readams on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @10:04PM (#11539144)
Malaria and other mosquito-borne diseases are actually a big reason why there is a third world.
Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by charlieflowers on Thursday April 21, 2016 @01:01AM (#11539805)
Really? How so? (Not attacking ... sincere question).

Seems to me that good second-world sanitation might alleviate it. But third world countries lack the sanitation and hence suffer Malaria. Seems the problem is political/social.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by gohrt on Thursday April 21, 2016 @10:08AM (#11542221)
anti-mosquito sanitation is relatively expensive, compared to other forms of sanitation.
Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by kpil on Thursday April 21, 2016 @01:49AM (#11539939)
I'd guess that the climate in Sweden helps too, so I still think we need CRISPR.

Coincidentally, there are quite many areas in Sweden were it is impossible to go outside in the summer without mosquito nets, and it is worsening.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by lucideer on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @07:23PM (#11538472)
I'm not sure where I suggested there are as many cases in Europe?

Mosquitoes do exist in Europe; they don't spread malaria because it isn't there to spread, and it isn't there to spread because of effective healthcare.

(Europe isn't a great example as the mosquito population is not exactly high, which I guess is climate-related, but the above is also true of parts of the developed world where their populations are higher)

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by ommunist on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @03:13PM (#11536937)
Actually there are some in Crimea and some in Bulgaria. Literally less than 100 cases in 10 years, mostly imported, not endemic. Treated in hospitals.
Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by astazangasta on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @02:03PM (#11536383)
We should just cure these diseases. Vector control is fucking hard, we've been trying it for a century without really fixing the problem. That isn't likely to change; therapeutic interventions, however, can keep getting better and cheaper.
Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by Turing_Machine on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @02:10PM (#11536447)
" Vector control is fucking hard, we've been trying it for a century without really fixing the problem. That isn't likely to change"

With CRISPR and gene drive, it changes from "fucking hard" to "trivial", so it is not only likely to change, it's already changed.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by goldbrick on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @03:26PM (#11537046)
> With CRISPR and gene drive, it changes from "fucking hard" to "trivial", so it is not only likely to change, it's already changed.

The kind of hubris displayed here almost certainly belies deep ignorance. Please, doctor, tell us how trivial editing DNA is.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by astazangasta on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @02:20PM (#11536533)
Can you show me an actual program using CRISPR and gene drive that's produced some effective changes? As far as I know this is still in the realm of theory. And given that we're talking about a single resistance mechanism, I'm going to guess that it will very quickly be defeated by evolution.

DDT was the "perfect" mosquito killer, as well. It didn't last - resistance inevitably follows these attempts in wild populations.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by Turing_Machine on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @02:38PM (#11536680)
Can you show me an actual program using CRISPR and gene drive that's produced some effective changes?

So your argument is that it can't be done because no one has done it?

No one has released gene drive systems to the wild, but there is every reason to believe that it will work fine, and no credible reason to believe that it won't.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by astazangasta on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @02:50PM (#11536755)
Err, I can give you a credible reason to believe that it won't: the parasite will inevitably develop resistance.

Here is the paper where they talk about the mechanism of resistance being conferred on the mosquito: http://www.pnas.org/content/109/28/E1922.abstract

The mechanism is this: "These scFvs are derived from antibodies specific to a parasite chitinase, the 25 kDa protein and the circumsporozoite protein, respectively."

So you'll spend a ton of money building a fancy CRISPR system in your mosquitoes, release them into the wild, and in a matter of months you will have parasites with on-target mutations in these proteins that will allow them to evade your resistance mechanism. I'd lay $1000 on this without blinking.

You're basically talking about curing malaria in mosquitoes. Why not, instead, just cure malaria in humans?

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by Turing_Machine on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @02:56PM (#11536806)
First, you're confusing wiping out the mosquito species with giving the mosquitos resistance to the malaria parasite. Those are two different things.

Second, there is no reason that a CRISPR-based system is limited to a single target. Will you also lay $1,000 against a system that targets ten species-unique sequences at once?

You're basically talking about curing malaria in mosquitoes.

Neither I nor the article is talking about that. It's a discussion of making the mosquito species itself extinct.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by astazangasta on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @03:05PM (#11536873)
> First, you're confusing wiping out the mosquito species with giving the mosquitos resistance to the malaria parasite. Those are two different things.

You're the one who brought up CRISPR and gene drive. Perhaps you should read the actual paper: http://www.pnas.org/content/112/49/E6736.full; you'll see that the proposal is entirely about giving mosquitoes resistance to the malaria parasite, not about eradication. That is, the goal is to eliminate the parasite in mosquito populations (i.e., cure malaria in mosquitoes), not to kill mosquitoes.

>Second, there is no reason that a CRISPR-based system is limited to a single target. Will you also lay $1,000 against a system that targets ten species-unique sequences at once?

Yes. On-target mutations are trivial to produce, and alleles segregate independently.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by Turing_Machine on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @05:30PM (#11537884)
"You're the one who brought up CRISPR and gene drive. "

Which can be targeted to eliminate the mosquitos themselves.

"Perhaps you should read the actual paper"

The actual paper? Like there's only one? Hint: there's more than one way to use this technology, and more than one group working with it.

"On-target mutations are trivial to produce, and alleles segregate independently."

I think you're misunderstanding what "independently" means in this context.

If the probability of a mutation that will get around one targeted sequence is (say) 1 in a million, that's almost certainly going to happen, just because there are billions of mosquitos.

However, if you target (say) ten independent sequences, the probability of any one organism having resistance to all of them is going to be 1 in (1 million)^10 = 1 in 10^60 and that is basically not going to happen. It does no good in this case for one organism to be resistant with respect to one target, while another organism is resistant with respect to another target, because all of the targets will have fatal outcomes. The only way for the organism to survive would be for it to be resistant to all of them at the same time, from the beginning.

And there's no reason why you'd have to stop at 10, either.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by astazangasta on Thursday April 21, 2016 @01:06AM (#11539822)
You should go read about MRSA, which shouldn't exist according to your logic. You also are misunderstanding how independent assortment of alleles work.

Because plasmodium is a eukaryotic species which reproduces sexually, on-target resistance mutations to any number of mechanisms can arise independently in a bunch of different organisms and accumulate through selection + allele segregation. It's also very easy to produce these sorts of mutations, since it is trivial to change an amino acid to disrupt antibody binding/recognition without altering the function of the protein.

>Which can be targeted to eliminate the mosquitos themselves.

This is incorrect; the whole point of a gene drive is that it causes increased propagation of a trait in the mosquito population. What you're describing is a very different strategy, since a trait that kills the mosquito obviously cannot propagate. It can also be achieved much more simply by using sterile males to outcompete fertile males and reduce the population ('sterile insect' technique); however, this technique only works on small populations and almost certainly wouldn't work in Anopheles or some such.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by ethanbond on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @02:06PM (#11536409)
With the risk being that we breed immunity into the population, seeing as it's still being carried and evolving in its carriers (the mosquitos).

FWIW, we could "cure" a lot of these diseases. We have, in rich parts of the world. If the option was between "we distribute cures to forgotten diseases to everyone who needs them" versus "we take a gamble and murder all the mosquitos," I might agree the former would be the better bet.

That's not the choice we're given because not enough people in the first world want to step up in a serious enough way.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by astazangasta on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @02:17PM (#11536513)
It doesn't really take that many people; these need not be expensive programs. It's a matter of political will, but a serious vector control program would be no different.

In any event, learning how to control human diseases and prevent parasites from killing us seems like a very fundamental goal of medicine which should be accomplished in any eventuality. Eradicating mosquitoes need not be.

Also, regarding resistance, it is much easier to track and defeat resistance in human patients than to track and defeat resistance in wild populations of mosquitoes, which is what we'll be doing if we try eradication campaigns.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by libeclipse on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @02:14PM (#11536483)
>We should just cure these diseases.

Much, much easier said than done.

Re:Let's Kill All the Mosquitoes by astazangasta on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @02:24PM (#11536579)
It is just the application of money, time and effort. Total global funding for malaria research is ~ half a billion dollars. I imagine if we, say, multiplied this by ten, it would have a susbstantial effect on improving outcomes.