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Re:How cheap does solar power need to get before it takes ov... by Gustomaximus on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @01:31AM (#11525076)
Similar to pumped water storage I wonder if we could do a household version with weight. Something like the gravity light (gravitylight.org) but on larger scale. I wonder if we could see a resurgence of chimneys on houses except now instead of letting smoke out they contain a XY ton weights that gets pushed up by excess solar capacity during the day, and then drops by evening powering the house.

I have no idea if that's realistic. Does someone know what the weight/distance to power output would be limited at...

Re:How cheap does solar power need to get before it takes ov... by rm445 on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @01:43AM (#11525099)
The potential energy of a mass m at height h is mgh.

Play with this and you'll immediately see it doesn't seem useful. e.g. storing a 50-tonne weight at 10m gives you less than 1.5 kWh of energy.

Re:How cheap does solar power need to get before it takes ov... by Gustomaximus on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @02:47AM (#11525265)
So probably needs in excess of 750 ton. And more likely twice as a house would more likely have a 5m 'chimney'. Clearly not viable. Thanks.
Re:How cheap does solar power need to get before it takes ov... by swombat on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @02:59AM (#11525305)
A much better and denser option for storing energy mechanically is flywheels. I haven't researched what happened to this option since but when I was looking into it 15 years ago it seemed like a good option that needed more R&D into frictionless axles and vacuum chambers.
Re:How cheap does solar power need to get before it takes ov... by dredmorbius on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @05:17AM (#11525785)
Excellent rapid response, second only to capacitors. But pretty poor densities, and hugely significant engineering challenges.

Flywheels that don't become fly-apart wheels is one problem.

Containment of fly-apart wheels another. Buried concrete pipes are usually what you're looking at. You need mass to contain these things.

The per-kg energy densities just aren't all that high. If you want reactive load to soak up very short-term demand / supply fluctuations, you can get that. And you've got crazy charge-discharge cycles.

Bearings are mostly solvable with magnets, as I understand. But you still lose a given percentage of storage over short time -- ~1% per hour or so, within a few powers of 2. Enough that long-term storage isn't viable.

And the thing that really screws you over is that the Earth moves. Geometric precession of your flywheel is something you've got to deal with.

There's a place, but I don't think it's large-scale, long-term grid storage.

Re:How cheap does solar power need to get before it takes ov... by pjc50 on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @07:15AM (#11526139)
The Formula 1 "KERS" system is based around high-speed flywheels and seems to work quite well.
Re:How cheap does solar power need to get before it takes ov... by thinkcontext on Tuesday April 19, 2016 @10:19AM (#11527108)
You are referring to a hydraulic accumulator[0], such systems were built in the 19th century, though not for household use.

There is a modern effort to use the technology in a massively scaled up fashion by Heindl Energy[1]. Their concept uses pumped water to raise a rock weight 100 meters or more in diameter.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_accumulator [1] http://www.heindl-energy.com/hydraulic-rock-storage/overview...