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Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by kibwen on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @11:45PM (#11444554)
My personal intuition is that splitting your userbase like this is disastrous for a game in the long-term (to say nothing of my intuition that 90% of people longing for "the old days" are just looking for a quick hit of nostalgia, with no intent to pay long-term).

However, it's worth mentioning that Runescape now officially offers a "classic" version of the game alongside (and separate from) the modern version, which should be an interesting experiment to watch.

Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by zanny on Thursday April 07, 2016 @01:43AM (#11444980)
You know that is an argument about expansions in the first place? Significant player dropoffs in WoW happen in the last patches before new expansions. The userbase usually spikes up on new releases, but almost always drops lower every time, predominately because new releases gate players who were on old versions against those on the new one. Friends stop being interested, unsub, and never come back because the player base is fragmented across every level cap WoW has had.

I've always thought that level caps in MMOs, particularly the WoW variety slash-and-burn where you basically make a new theme park every two years and throw the last one in the dumpster in terms of player viability, is a destructive cycle not conductive to building real living worlds.

Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by paulmd on Thursday April 07, 2016 @09:53AM (#11447233)
On the flip side, you've got the EVE Online model. Expansions are released every 6-8 months as "super-patches". Like every MMO it's mandatory to be playing on the latest version, but everyone gets it for "free".

It's pretty simple to avoid the problem of having players scattered across multiple content sets and levelcaps: stop bleeding your players dry. What are subscription fees paying for if not ongoing development of additional content?

IMO you should either charge for expansions or charge subscription fees - but not both.

Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by debacle on Thursday April 07, 2016 @11:41AM (#11448127)
Blizzard releases paid expansions because people will pay for them.
Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by Falcon9 on Thursday April 07, 2016 @12:55PM (#11448736)
Yeah, it's hard to make the business case for leaving money on the table - with every expansion comes change and change much more than the expansion cost is really what is causing the gating effect.
Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by cynoclast on Thursday April 07, 2016 @06:40PM (#11451271)
Treating your customers as customers rather than cash cows engenders positive feelings toward your company, and ensures continued subscription. There's your business case.
Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by cLeEOGPw on Saturday April 09, 2016 @03:52AM (#11460414)
Positive feelings don't always maximize profits.
Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by na85 on Thursday April 07, 2016 @12:23PM (#11448501)
Blizzard isn't and never has been trying to create a "living world". That dream died when Ultima Online showed us exactly what players will do in an unscripted world that's as close to living as the tech of the time would permit.

WoW was, from the outset, designed to railroad players through content theme parks and give a hit of dopamine just often enough to keep them playing.

Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by taneq on Thursday April 14, 2016 @09:55PM (#11501568)
Wow was far more free in the early days. After about Burning Crusade they were under increasing pressure to allow players of all play styles and skill levels the ability to "see the content", which lead eventually to Raid Finder and gated progression. This ripped the last shreds of immersion away from the world and left the bare, creaking treadmill of "get tier X, farm tier X+1 tokens, get tier X+1, farm tier X+2 tokens..." exposed, which (for me) is what finally killed the game.
Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by bitwize on Thursday April 07, 2016 @07:20AM (#11446348)
Blizzard isn't interested in "building a living world" and never has been. From its inception the purpose of WoW has been to farm the likes of you for gold.
Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by Margh on Thursday April 07, 2016 @08:58AM (#11446834)
And how do they continue to "farm" you for gold if you unsubscribe because you no longer feel a part of the world?
Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by zipwitch on Thursday April 07, 2016 @11:22AM (#11447954)
By getting a small subset of players to buy premium cosmetic content and in-game gold. Blizzard came up with a clever mechanism involving game time and other players for the latter, both in order to obfuscate what they were doing somewhat and to give them a little more control over their economy.

The Blizzard Warcraft Store: https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/game/wow

Information on the "WoW Token" mechanism for turning $ into gold: http://www.tentonhammer.com/guides/guide-to-buying-and-selli...

Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by minimaxir on Thursday April 07, 2016 @10:22AM (#11447454)
That is exactly why subscriptions had dropped sharply after the release of Warlords of Draenor. (the endgame was designed around the antisocial garrisons, a mistake which they have scaled back in the upcoming expansion)
Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by bitwize on Thursday April 07, 2016 @01:44PM (#11449109)
Ultimately, you don't matter to them. For every subscriber like you they lose because of a change, if they get two more, more casual players to sign up, they're in the black and sacrificing your membership is rational from a financial perspective.
Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by mfukar on Thursday April 07, 2016 @08:44AM (#11446759)
If you look hard enough, you'll realise "a living world" is used as a synonym to "a market".
Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by Filthy_casual on Thursday April 07, 2016 @02:45AM (#11445219)
This brings up another point in favor of "why not".

If existing players who are willing to buy new expansions whenever they are available migrate to vanilla servers, they might as well opt out of buying the expansions, since adding new content in the vanilla servers will make them non-vanilla.

Huh.

Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by Margh on Thursday April 07, 2016 @08:59AM (#11446850)
A prudent developer might make the expansions a mandatory purchase that adds the new content in cosmetic ways.
Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by stcredzero on Thursday April 07, 2016 @01:21PM (#11448938)
I've always thought that level caps in MMOs, particularly the WoW variety slash-and-burn where you basically make a new theme park every two years and throw the last one in the dumpster in terms of player viability, is a destructive cycle not conductive to building real living worlds.

Theme Park/Resort Casino. Basically dazzle your senses while getting you to play a rigged game to massage you with variable schedule of reward. A real, living world is spoiler-proof.

Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by vlan0 on Thursday April 07, 2016 @09:32AM (#11447072)
I really question this logic though. As someone who played with a large group of friends from Beta to TBC, none of us would even consider picking up WoW in its current state. Obviously this is a very small sample size, but I talked to many people when playing on Nost that felt the same way.

I do not see how they would be splitting the userbase, when many of the players of this server wouldn't even consider returning to Blizzard's current product.

Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by anexprogrammer on Thursday April 07, 2016 @12:09AM (#11444644)
If done at least semi-officially it could equally be a way to bring back lapsed players as much as any splitting of user base. Many leave in major updates or exciting new releases. WoW lost loads since LK. In other games LotRO horse riding update lost 30% of the users. GW2 redesigned for the intellectually challenged. I'm sure some would want to come back to the game before it was wrecked. Maybe not so much GW2 - it was always too easy to hold interest for long.

The problem I see is old versions would be unlikely to get updates like new content or dungeons so even those hoping to play long term would get bored eventually.

Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by Shivetya on Thursday April 07, 2016 @10:05AM (#11447324)
Still to put WOW in perspective with other games you list, WOW's population loss and gains around expansions tends to be higher in number than other games ever achieve.

Games age and taste change too. Blizzard has done an amazing job to see so many millions of players interested. The one surprise to me is how low of level their free play is limited to.

Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by anexprogrammer on Thursday April 07, 2016 @11:40AM (#11448116)
Oh very true. Somehow they made it achieve the same as most of the rest of the MMO space together. Never quite saw why as, well, I never got hooked on it, so left early. One of the kids is still hooked on WOW and won't let us kill the sub even now!
Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by qu4z-2 on Thursday April 07, 2016 @08:29PM (#11451768)
Personally, I'd play a lot of Mabinogi Classic if they released that.
Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by Zancarius on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @11:59PM (#11444608)
I think the first concern could be countered somewhat by 1) the nature of Battle.net's integration with WoW and 2) either doing it via their phasing mechanics or having a means to copy a character over at the expansion's level cap. This way, you could see what friends are playing, which expansion level, and opt to join them.

Otherwise, I do see your point. As much as I'd enjoy it if they offered new players/characters the option of playing revised post-Cataclysm content for leveling or "classic" content instead, it might pull away enough of the existing population to make early group quests painful. (Although, that could be mitigated somewhat in the same manner their cross-realm stuff currently works.)

You may be right about the nostalgic effects, although it is a pretty powerful effect and certainly got one particular company's side venture off to a good start [1]. In the times I've toyed around with TrinityCore, I find I'd play it at least 2-3 times a week if I had friends who weren't absolutely terrified of the potential for permanent bans--the old content was that enjoyable to me. Nevertheless, I recently re-subscribed to retail this February, and I enjoy it, but it feels like it's missing something. It doesn't have the same charm, but I do appreciate a few of the improvements (the "spell crunch" is miserable, however).

I'm a sample size of one, though, and that's certainly not enough to make any time investment worthwhile on Blizzard's behalf.

[1] http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/21/5913763/gog-com-back-catalo...

Re:Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private se... by bpicolo on Thursday April 07, 2016 @11:29AM (#11448016)
Everquest started doing this long ago (~2006 I believe?), where people could progress starting at the first expansion. They would slowly move a server through the expansions. EQ2 looks to have it now as well. It's pretty successful in context, if I remember right, though naturally much of the original Everquest magic wasn't quite there