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Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by team_doom on Monday April 04, 2016 @08:06AM (#11421186)
I think this is the wrong way to approach this. You're essentially pirating content now. If you don't like the ads, stop using the site. It's that simple. To take it a step farther, send an email to customer service explaining WHY you're no longer using the site. This sends a much stronger message to them about what makes you unhappy with the service they provide.
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by 15charlimit on Monday April 04, 2016 @08:53AM (#11421466)
>You're essentially pirating content now.

No, what you're doing is reformatting content that is being openly broadcast to anyone who cares to look in its direction, to best suit your interests and device capabilities and security.

If a site literally cannot survive without ads being viewed, they should block those who use ad blockers or reconsider their business model since blocking will only become more prevalent over time.

Not a bad idea on the email though.

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by tomp on Monday April 04, 2016 @08:51AM (#11421445)
> You're essentially pirating content now.

Earlier, the websites were "pirating" his/her device & browser.

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by jamespo on Monday April 04, 2016 @09:17AM (#11421608)
How did they do that, put a rootkit on his machine forcing all hits to them?
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by freehunter on Monday April 04, 2016 @09:20AM (#11421627)
Well they didn't exactly say "do we have your permission to run your CPU up to 100%, hog all of your memory, and install trackers on your computer? And occasionally, can we install malware on your machine?"
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by jamespo on Monday April 04, 2016 @09:31AM (#11421696)
Reminds me of the arguments about not letting in any refugees as some of them may commit a crime.
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by freehunter on Monday April 04, 2016 @11:42AM (#11422723)
Once advertisements become sentient creatures and can be considered human, then they should be granted human rights. As it stands though, what you're doing is saying that refugees (who, I remind you, are humans) are basically worth as much as a banner ad on a website. It shouldn't need to be said, but I'll say it anyway: blocking ads is not comparable to genocide. In any way. At all.

Fucking disgusting.

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by bigmanwalter on Monday April 04, 2016 @12:18PM (#11423067)
The singularity is approaching! What a time to be alive :)
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by tremon on Monday April 04, 2016 @09:43AM (#11421789)
Except that we do not have a humanitarian obligation towards javascriptlets.
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by jamespo on Monday April 04, 2016 @10:44AM (#11422236)
and that is definitely the aspect that reminded me
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by tremon on Monday April 04, 2016 @09:42AM (#11421784)
Can you say for certain that none of the sites you visit run a javascript bitcoin miner?
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by tomp on Monday April 04, 2016 @09:55AM (#11421864)
No, just JavaScript that I never asked for and don't want to run.
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by team_doom on Monday April 04, 2016 @09:39AM (#11421755)
I'm not sure what you mean by this?
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by hobs on Monday April 04, 2016 @08:52AM (#11421457)
Unfortunately due to the large occurrence of malware being served over ad networks I will never choose to view ads even for trusted sites.

I will and have support people in other mediums(donations, patreon, etc), but the advertising model serving bad actor's code to my browser is not going to fly.

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by InclinedPlane on Monday April 04, 2016 @09:34AM (#11421720)
Do you ever listen to the radio or live tv? And if so do you feel an obligation to not switch channels when there are ads playing?

Such utter nonsense.

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by team_doom on Monday April 04, 2016 @09:45AM (#11421808)
I do, actually. I listen to commercials on the radio all the time. It's how they pay for the content I'm listening to and they are often targeted enough that I hear about a business/offer that is pertinent to me. I don't think it's "utter nonsense". I feel like I'm supporting the continued existence of something that I care enough about to listen to. If they can't monetize the service, how can it be expected to continue? Is there no cognitive dissonance for you when you consume something without paying for it? This is the entitlement I referred to in another comment. I don't have cable, so no TV ads.
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by yoo1I on Monday April 04, 2016 @10:02AM (#11421907)
There's the difference: you seem to be getting something out of the ads. For me it's 100% irrelevant. If I need something I will go look for it. If what I need is so special that it can't be found by an internet search, rest assured no-one would make an ad for it.

I am not sure why you use the term "cognitive dissonance" for referring to a situation where I consume without paying for something, and I don't feel entitled either. It feels very sonant to read clean websites.

If someone chooses to provide a resource it's their issue to figure out how to make it profitable. Trying to set up a fake moral pressure which requires me to listen to/watch mundane, uninspiring bullshit that I do not care about, that wouldn't make them any money from me anyhow, is kind of a strange way to go through life. If I went to your website for it's great content, why do you want to force me to look at something else instead? My brain resources are too valuable to be used to process to hear someone's lies about their products.

In essence you want me to pay for your things by quite literally wasting my time.

How did that become a thing, I wonder ...

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by team_doom on Monday April 04, 2016 @11:08AM (#11422426)
It's pretty simple. The great content is created because the site can afford to pay for it. The "something else" I'm forcing you to look at is keeping the servers on. They HAVE figured out how to make it profitable, and you've figured out how to avoid paying for it. Just because you feel that the moral obligation is manufactured doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Paywalls are not the answer in all cases, and I do think there are moral as well as technical questions here.

I call it entitlement because you want, and are getting, a free lunch. I call it cognitive dissonance because as an adult with bills to pay you must understand that you are hurting a business by consuming content that costs them money to create and host without paying for it, be it with your time or your money.

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by yoo1I on Monday April 04, 2016 @11:34AM (#11422652)
I would submit they have not figured out how to make it profitable, lest we would not be in the situation that we're in.

Clearly there is a dissonance between the product your consumers want, your content, and the product you're willing to offer them: your content mixed with advertisement. That's an unfortunate situation.

Why does the advertisement make you money in the first place though ?

Someone out there with an actual product or service, want's to sell their product. To increase sales, they pay you an amount of money that they think represents the amount of sale they will generate from the buyers that buy based on the advertisement run on your site. Whether it's through the proxy of some ad network or not.

If I am not willing to buy any products in the first place, I don't have to be factored into the amount the company is willing to pay to advertisers, as it will not increase their sales. If, based on just viewing the advertisement, I still am, that price is slightly inflated.

All what I am doing by blocking ads is bringing that price closer to it's actual value. Now, that's not in your interest as a content producer, but you don't have to be all moralistic about it and try to make me feel bad.

You might argue that that's incorrect, and after viewing enough advertisement I might be persuaded to buy a product that I would not have wanted to by before, but I am not willing to give you that power over my mind for mundane stuff like deodorants and beverages.

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by Karunamon on Monday April 04, 2016 @11:48AM (#11422781)
That is the height of shit that is not my problem. The "moral" argument against ad blocking goes away when you consider:

- The security implications of the large ad networks (how many malware scares were the result of exploit-laden ads being served on large, popular sites?)

- The privacy implications of same (tracking all the things)

- The large ad networks attitude towards said problems. ("Meh.")

The moment the sites that show these unvetted ads take some responsibility and agree to reimburse me and my company for my time spent dealing with a security breach caused by their shitty practices is the moment I begin considering not blocking ads at the firewall, and not a second before.

They want all the benefit with none of the responsibility. And that responsibility goes well beyond "paste some javascript we gave you in your header".

As long as the transaction is that one-sided, people will continue blocking, and no amount of moralizing is going to change it. Get used to it.

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by tremon on Monday April 04, 2016 @11:15AM (#11422505)
you are hurting a business by consuming content that costs them money to create and host without paying for it

And if I chose not to consume their content, how much money would it save them?

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by darpa_escapee on Monday April 04, 2016 @11:47AM (#11422771)
That sounds like entitlement according to the OP's definition.
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by tremon on Monday April 04, 2016 @12:01PM (#11422911)
Maybe, but that wasn't my point. My point is that it's useless to have a discussion about the economic impact of individual "pirating" of website content because the discussion costs more than the piracy.
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by norea-armozel on Tuesday April 05, 2016 @05:30PM (#11434674)
A site is a site is a site. Whether it serves incomprehensible text or comprehensible 'content'. When you decided as a site owner to open up your entire content to the world for all to consume as is without authentication or some sort of DRM strategy it's available to everyone. And I mean everyone. You can freely close your site off if you want but stop lying to yourself that you're entitled to make your site profitable. It's like saying you're entitled to ROI if you make a product regardless of how people view it (as useless or bad). You're not entitled to profitability. You're only entitled to the chance to become profitable and no more. Please etch that idea into your forehead because from my POV you're the one acting as if you're entitled to free money.
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by snassar on Monday April 04, 2016 @09:55AM (#11421869)
Do you see no difference between an advertisement on a website and an advertisement on TV or radio?
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by InclinedPlane on Monday April 04, 2016 @02:57PM (#11424403)
But the real test is whether your are influenced by radio and tv commercials. Do you buy the products advertised?
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by bitwize on Monday April 04, 2016 @10:21AM (#11422042)
"Your contract with the network when you get the show is you're going to watch the spots. Otherwise you couldn't get the show on an ad-supported basis. Any time you skip a commercial or watch the button you're actually stealing programming." --Jamie Kellner, former Warner executive
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by chopin on Monday April 04, 2016 @01:16PM (#11423572)
"To view this content, you are obliged to shoot yourself in the foot." --me

Any time you shove me down ransomware you are actively supporting crime.

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by bitwize on Wednesday April 06, 2016 @01:45AM (#11436857)
I'm not saying that what Jamie Kellner said is a good thing, only that he said it -- and it broadly reflects the thinking of many decision makers in the "content industry" -- that when content is made available to the audience with support from advertisers, the audience is obligated to view the ads.
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by cm2187 on Monday April 04, 2016 @08:10AM (#11421199)
I actually end up doing that with websites that block browsers with ad-blockers from viewing the content. It takes a while to change my habits but when they are changed there is no coming back to these sites.
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by team_doom on Monday April 04, 2016 @08:24AM (#11421290)
To me that comes off as "Hey, I'm angry you won't let me view your content without paying for it anymore". Obviously in this case paying for it is viewing/watching ads. Not trying to get high and mighty with anyone. The whole ad-block culture just screams entitlement to me and it bothers me a lot.
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by msandford on Monday April 04, 2016 @08:38AM (#11421374)
Who is entitled? People who want to view content and will make what they feel is a reasonable bargain to do so, or people who want to sell ads and will make unreasonable bargains to do so?

If the initial html that loaded on the page also had the ads in it, it'd be much harder to block them and also make the experience of seeing those ads much less unpleasant.

As it stands what people are doing is loading the initial html and saying "no thanks" to all of the follow-on stuff.

There's two sides to every story.

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by team_doom on Monday April 04, 2016 @09:55AM (#11421868)
I don't disagree with the fact that ads could be better served more safely and more securely. And I agree that the experience could be better. That's where my comment about writing an email to explain ones unhappiness with the user experience comes in. I work in information security and we do see a lot of malware infections from compromised ad servers.

The idea of a website serving ads themselves, instead of relying on a call to an ad network, is good. It means big changes to how advertising works though. The advertisers would have to give customers the ads for them to embed into the page and would need some sort of guarantee that the customer wouldn't change the ads and would pull them down when it was time to do so. I can't think of a way to check this stuff automatically that doesn't involve a call to an advertisers server, which is the whole problem to begin with.

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by wernercd on Monday April 04, 2016 @08:51AM (#11421455)
I would have agreed with you to some extent (Adblockers are STEELING!!! Really... companies deserve to earn money for what they provide)...

Until 30 after 30: http://www.engadget.com/2016/01/08/you-say-advertising-i-say...

Block users who have adblock? Okay...

Serve those users pop under malware for over a week to users who was kind enough to disable ad blocking? Not Okay...

I lost my inclination to feel guilty after that... Ad Blocking is a SECURITY measure at this point, since ad networks can't seem to protect me.

I'll protect myself to the best of my ability.

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by cm2187 on Monday April 04, 2016 @08:40AM (#11421384)
I am not angry. The authors of the website control their content. If they want to block ad blocking browsers so be it. But my reaction to it is to go somewhere else, not to embrace being tracked all over the web.
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by fucking_tragedy on Monday April 04, 2016 @09:27AM (#11421671)
These businesses feel that they are entitled to my time, my browsing history, my CPU time, my battery life, my limited mobile data, my habits, my privacy and the security of my identity and machines.

They feel that they are entitled to not adapt their business model to change and will push anyone off the jungle gym who won't play by their archaic rules.

It's their right, but the only entitlement I feel I deserve is the right to ignore their childish behavior as well.

Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by johnward on Monday April 04, 2016 @04:18PM (#11425197)
I bet you're talking about Forbes.
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by teaneedz on Monday April 04, 2016 @01:27PM (#11423668)
Not pirating since one has no indication if or what type of ad-tech is being used a site. It just takes one click to end up with malicious code or a UX headache. The website owner is responsible and does not even require an email from users (more wasted time) since the data will already show what's happening. If the site owner is too dense to comprehend the issue or importance of UX, then c'est la vie.
Re:Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outg... by norea-armozel on Tuesday April 05, 2016 @05:21PM (#11434596)
If you don't put up a login for your content on the site then it's free for anyone to read with or without Ads.