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Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by tlrobinson on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @05:38PM (#11206695)
Apple is talking about source code, the FBI is talking about a signed binary. I'm fairly certain Apple has the technical ability to create a signed binary that only executes on a single phone.
Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by HillRat on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @05:50PM (#11206768)
More importantly, once "GovtOS" (as Apple's filing calls it) is developed -- even if the government is billed $800K for the privilege -- each subsequent writ will be much less expensive to fulfill, creating a tidal wave of LEO requests to unlock phones. So Apple wants to head this off right now, because otherwise the floodgates will open.
Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by AnkhMorporkian on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @06:06PM (#11206867)
Not necessarily. Apple could simply delete all code modified to make that change, necessitating a similar amount of work for each phone unlocked.
Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by adventured on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @06:18PM (#11206947)
Apple has said that for legal reasons, it may be forced to keep the code permanently and will have to secure it permanently out of concern for future legal/court obligations specific to this case.
Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by rplst8 on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @08:30PM (#11207555)
In support of this, someone forwarded me a very interesting article written by someone who creates forensic software for a living. The legal requirements surrounding the creation of a software tool for forensic purposes, which this proposed effort requested by the government might fall under, are nothing less than herculean in scope.

http://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=5645

Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by sah2ed on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @07:11AM (#11209451)
Zdziarski's arguments are very illuminating on how this is not a simple or one-off request. Excellent read.
Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by jonlucc on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @07:14PM (#11207248)
I'm sure defense counsel would want to be able to verify that it isn't modifying file access times, or deleting data, or planting data, or otherwise disturbing evidence when the update is put in.
Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by panax on Wednesday March 02, 2016 @11:44PM (#11215069)
If Apple had designed the iPhone to require user authentication before updating the software/firmware then they wouldn't be in this mess and they would not be able to comply with the court order short of hacking/jailbreaking the phone. If the pin was required to be entered before installing new software on the phone then the FBI would first need to know the pin to load GovOS on the phone so they would not be able to crack the pin using this method. And once Apple patches their software to require user authentication before installing updates they will no longer be able to comply with any similar type of request.
Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by nostrademons on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @07:27PM (#11207320)
It's a pretty good bet that China, Russia, the NSA, and other state security agencies have access to Apple's source code (not by Apple providing it to them, but by having pwned an employee's laptop). If Apple creates the source code to do this, these state agencies will be a digital signature away from being able to crack any iPhone that ends up in their physical possession. This applies even if Apple deletes the source code soon after providing the binary to the FBI, since it will have been siphoned off the corp network while under development.

Still a good idea?

Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by Crito on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @11:50PM (#11208147)
> "It's a pretty good bet that China, Russia, the NSA, and other state security agencies have access to Apple's source code (not by Apple providing it to them, but by having pwned an employee's laptop). If Apple creates the source code to do this, these state agencies will be a digital signature away from being able to crack any iPhone"

In the scenario you lay out, these security agencies are incapable of writing their own modifications to iOS, even though they possess the source to iOS.

Absolutely ridiculous. If they can steal the source and signing key, they certainly have access to the technical expertise to do it themselves.

I mean christ, exactly how complicated do you think this pin timeout logic is? If they can hire sufficiently skilled hackers, they can certainly hire sufficiently skilled developers.

The security of the system lies in the secrecy of the signing key. If they can meet that bar, they can surmount any other obstacle.

Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by rtpg on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @07:36PM (#11207367)
> These state agencies will be a digital signature away from being able to crack any iPhone that ends up in their physical possession.

Which in the current world, is about as far from having an exploit as one can be. Digital signing works pretty well.

Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by theoh on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @05:53PM (#11206786)
Can you explain how that would be implemented cryptographically? Doesn't seem like an obvious feature to have included to me.
Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by daxelrod on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @06:06PM (#11206868)
My understanding is that when you install iOS on an iPhone, an Apple server signs the OS as part of a challenge-response protocol. The challenge includes a unique device ID, and I believe the signed iOS is only installable on a device with that ID. http://www.saurik.com/id/12 has more details.

Think about this in the context of jailbreaking to understand why such a facility exists. Apple doesn't want users to install their own modifications to iOS, and they also don't want users to install old versions of iOS that have vulnerabilities that would allow people to modify the OS.

One way you could implement something like this is to have a public/private keypair within the device and have updates encrypted with the public key; then design the device to only run an OS that it could decrypt with its private key. To do this well, you would need a TPM that did not allow the private key to leave the device, nor to be reset.

Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by mdavidn on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @06:10PM (#11206896)
All iOS software updates, even the normal ones, bear a digital signature that incorporates the device's UDID. The bulk of the software update is the same for all devices, but Apple must generate a new signature for each device using Apple's private signing key.
Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by tlrobinson on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @06:05PM (#11206864)
I don't know if Apple has any specific capability as part of the firmware verification, but even if they didn't they could just put something like this early in the boot process:

    if (unique_device_id != SAN_BERNARDINO_DEVICE_ID) {
        halt();
    }
If this code must be signed to execute then it can't be modified to work on another device without Apple signing it again.

This assumes there's a unique device ID that is known to the FBI and can't be tampered with. Maybe the serial number or IMEI?

Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by pfooti on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @09:53PM (#11207819)
Fixed that for you:

    if (unique_device_id != SAN_BERNARDINO_DEVICE_ID) {
        goto fail
    }
Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by KMag on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @06:13PM (#11206912)
My understanding is that phone thieves routinely change the IMEI by desoldering and replacing a chip. If this weren't the case, I think it would be fairly easy for detectives to call up the person currently in possession of any given stolen iPhone.
Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by tlrobinson on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @06:16PM (#11206939)
Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by theoh on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @06:25PM (#11206977)
It looks like there's something called a UDID which is a SHA-1 hash of a bunch of identifying information. So, difficult to fake even if you can twiddle the source values or swap in new chips.

https://www.theiphonewiki.com/wiki/UDID

Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by openasocket on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @06:42PM (#11207081)
Except they have the shooter's phone, which has the identifying information which results in the correct UDID. To get the same UDID on another phone they just need to change the source values to the same values as in the shooter's phone. The fact that it's a cryptographic hash doesn't really help here, assuming they can change all the source values at will.
Re:FBI’s Comey Concedes Mistake Was Made Over iPhone in San ... by tommoose on Tuesday March 01, 2016 @07:34PM (#11207358)
I'm not sure how Apple could develop GovtOS without at least testing it on other iPhones.