As a bonus, it means that the minimum wages aren't relevant, since supply and demand of skilled international workers will set the lowest wage that gets admitted to the US.
This rule would unfortunately favor employers in high cost-of-living areas over low COL ones. Employees are approximately ambivalent between taking home $5k/mo and paying $2k/mo in rent, and taking home $4k/mo and paying $1k/mo in rent. But, the higher rent + higher pay scenario will get admitted well before the lower rent + lower pay.
It also incentivizes putting as much of the compensation in salary as possible, and as little as possible in other benefits.
> It also incentivizes putting as much of the compensation in salary as possible, and as little as possible in other benefits.
Both of these to a pretty ridiculous degree. You would have issues with companies like Amazon (who pay reasonably well and so far as I know don't abuse the H1-B system) getting screwed because they either don't pay as much in cash (they like a stock heavy comp model) or because they aren't paying people bay area money.
They could also expand their presence in their SF office, if somehow an area costing a lot to live in would become an advantage. Unless there's an assumption that Amazon has some sort of unalienable right to hire foreign workers at less than local market rates, there really isn't anything unfair about it.
Also, you are not accounting for non tech professions. For example, fashion industry doesn't generally pay as well. Do you expect that none of them are granted an H1 in that case?
The solution is much more complex than you have laid out here..
No offense at all to those in the US for H1-B, but too many citizens are unemployed or underemployed right this very second.
Yes, they do. They need to show proof of having advertised the job somewhere. At least, I've been through this process three times, with three different lawyers, and we've done it every time.
Exhaustive discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10969721
But note in particular that firms specialize in coaching companies on how to fake compliance with such laws:
story: http://www.post-gazette.com/business/businessnews/2007/06/21...
video proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU
Neither of those jobs actually meet immigration categories. If you want to hire someone through H1B you need to provide a job spec that is needlessly specific with exact skills checked off. The kind of job that, if you saw it, you'd think "I never want to work there, they list a job as if it's a checklist of acronyms!"
If Apple can attract the candidates and you can't, you're not offering enough money.
This is exactly the point about the "engineering shortage". If there is a shortage, salaries should be going up. Since salaries are not going up, there is, by definition, no shortage.
Heck, sidestepping academic/research quotas, 115k would even exclude professors from many top-ranked non-big city universities. Salary will unfortunately bias the H1B in favor of software engineering and high-cost-of-living geographical locations. Skilled professions earning < 115k in H1B include, professors, researchers, postdocs, resident doctors everywhere, engineers and accountants of all types outside big cities, etc. etc.
Working in your IT silos, it is easy for you to lose sight of the big picture.
Edit: To give you a sense of how dumb the idea is, look up assistant professor salaries at UIUC ECE, arguably one of the top 5 universities in this area in the country (or top 10 in the world, in fact), you'll find almost all assistant profs earn < 115k.
1. Spouses of H1B workers (H4) cannot work. Most spouses of H1B are well qualified advanced degree holders. Currently they idle their productive ages sitting at home. The H1B worker has to look after his/her home with a single source of income.
How will you feel as a citizen if someone restricts your spouse from having a job, though he/she is well qualified with advanced degrees ? How will the spouses feel when they are restricted by this 'out of the world' rule that spouse of an H1B cannot work ? How is this different from the Saudis that women can't drive cars ?
2. H1B workers cannot have a secondary source of income. So he/she has to do with a single income source unlike others who can work multiple jobs.
3. H1B workers pay social security and medicare for nothing. H1B is a 6 year visa. Why should H1B workers pay social security & medicare tax when they are allowed to work only for 6 years ? They do not have any use of these taxes. They will not be present in US at the age of 65 to reap the benefits of these taxes that they pay. So a higher salary will compensate this unnecessary loss for an H1B worker.
4. H1B workers cannot make a job change very easily, nor can they switch jobs if they are fired. They should immediately leave the country (imagine vacating the apartment,selling car,taking kids out of their school) else face deportation.
So 115K is not insane, it's a minimum. H1B workers ought to get paid more because they are losing a lot by these draconian restrictions imposed upon them by the H1B system.
The wage metric to use in the hiring of an H1B worker is the top end of the salary range of that job description for the city or area PLUS a 10-20% premium. This ensures that the company really needs to bring someone in. An entry level engineer in SF/SV would have the tier 1 salary apply to them while a senior engineer would get the higher tier.
The problem isn't just the definition of 'prevailing wage' or the use of the lower tier 1 salary figures for senior positions. The problem is the lack of enforcement by the goverment agencies approving these visa applications.
Is this true? I thought that the salary of H1b worker must match an average paid for this kind of position in this area. In fact, I'm fairly certain that the company sponsoring H1B must supply documents showing they did the research, on both wages and the fact that they couldn't find anyone in the US to do this kind of work.
The wage for a Level 4 'Software Developers, Applications' in SF is 138k/yr[1]
Which option do you think employers choose?
[0] http://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-11...
[1] http://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesQuickResults.aspx?code=15-11...
It wasn't until I hired a few H1Bs that I understood that the H1B discount isn't just a simple wrong. When looking at H1B compensation, we should probably also include additional legal fees paid on behalf of the worker rather than simply comparing salary to salary if we want an apples-to-apples comparison.
Unfortunately, if the changes you propose are implemented then that means a lot of H1Bs will lose their jobs.
Like it or not, the value proposition for employers is that H1Bs are cheaper and more dependent. Remove those two factors and US companies will just hire currently unemployed US workers.
This is fine for everyone except the H1B workers, so while you plan is well-meaning in its intent not to blame H1Bs it would have the effect massive job losses for them!
This is true - but there's no need to apply it retroactively. You can just change the regulations for the next batch of H1B participants in 2017 - the visa only lasts six years anyway.
Granting H1 to top salaries mean only big companies will be able to afford these visas. What happens to an H1 holder that starts off in a 200k position and wants to leave to a 150k+equity position?
No, it means that companies-in-general will only use the H1B system for roles that are actually difficult to fill, domestically.
How difficult? Difficult-enough that the pay is high, that's how difficult.
No, it means only very profitable companies will be able to afford top talent. That's the idea.
> What happens to an H1 holder that starts off in a 200k position and wants to leave to a 150k+equity position?
It doesn't have to be based on a single form of compensation. You could adjust for equity based compensation and adjust the lower limit accordingly. Even if you didn't adjust for equity based compensation, you'd be far better off than the current lottery based system.
Suppose we raise the minimum salary to say 120k/yr, or if we use the salary to determine the order, what this will signal is that the more you are paid the more you are needed. And since this visa is for the best and brightest we will see that, hey, my manager/dentist/lawyer/doctor makes double what I make, that would indicate to me that we need more of those best and brightest from around the world.
But that's not what this is, there is no shortage that we need to address. We educate and train plenty of American citizens to fill these rolls. It is corporate welfare that the government is all to willing to play along with.
Or perhaps you're talking about things you have no first hand experience with, which would greatly diminish the value of opinions you held about shortage of programmers.
Was it effortless? No, not remotely. But, hiring an skilled employee shouldn't be effortless. And the positions were filled in time to meet objectives.
edit - formatting
If believe that makes you feel better, then fine. It is not true for all sectors. Not remotely true for many specialized job descriptions. And not all jobs can be performed after a 6 month training period.
Now, these cases have nothing to do with "shortage", but rather, replacement. Disney's H1-Bs were not hired "in addition to" the existing workers, existing workers got replaced. That's bad.
But even that visa is being gamed, see the Peter Roberts AMA here from a few weeks ago.
But the fact of the matter is a majority of H-1B visas go to positions that are bottom of the totem pole, back office development and IT. I mean 80% of them pay on the lower tiers of the pay scales. Seems an awful waste of talent and an overall raw deal for the worlds best and brightest.
1. The H1B visa is supposed to be a "skilled visa". But currently this visa is purely based on luck and not on skills & that's how many bad apples game the system. The DOL approves LCA based on minimum wages. The consultancies just pay the minimum wages and bring in the H1B employee. This minimum wage should be increased to match the salary of a skilled American worker. So that this exploitation will stop.
eg: (the salaries are approximate)
In Arizona , the minimum annual salary for LCA is 62K, the average salary paid to an American worker is 115K. Consultancy firms like TCS,Infosys and many other local "one room" consultancies pays 62K and bring in H1B employees because 62K is the minimum stipulated by Department of Labor. Increasing this minimum 62K to a realistic salary like 115K will stop this abuse.
2. There is no easy job portability for H1B workers. Switching jobs on H1B is a precarious act and if something goes wrong, you will have to be out of the country immediately, no grace period. So to be on the safer side, many H1B employees stay silent and accept lowball offers. They also have kids who are going to school and a spouse who cannot work because they are on H4. So H1B workers job portability is not really easy.
Make H1B jobs portable without any strings attached. So that if an H1B employee is paid less and abused by the employer. He/She can switch jobs easily. So this will prevent H1B abuse by the employers and they will think twice before low balling an H1B worker.
3. H1B is a dual intent visa. Once the employer starts GreenCard process for the worker. The H1B worker is literally on shackles. The rules are so strict that the worker cannot change jobs easily. Cannot accept promotions or title change for years. The worker silently accepts this because he/she has a family & kids to support just like any other American worker.
All I want to convey is: The H1B employee is not be blamed for this. The very rules of the H1B system are being gamed by the consultancy companies from India. Stopping H1B system is not the solution because all the large companies in US has huge dependency on H1B employees.
So to stop this abuse, 1. Increase the minimum wages to a more realistic one. 2. Stop lottery system and grant visas based on top salary. 3. Make the H1B job easily portable.