News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by autoreleasepool on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @10:43AM (#10980604)
I've tried to like Safari. It's certainly snappier than the alternatives. It's fast and seems light. I'll go as far as to say I want to like Safari. As a heavy iPhone and Mac user, going all in on Safari would buy me a lot. In a similar vein, I want to like Firefox - even more so than Safari. An open source web browser by a non-profit? Sign me up. That's an excellent concept to rally behind.

But...

I can't ditch Chrome. I know it eats up resources like it's nobody's business, I know it's probably tracking me, I hate that it wants me to 'log in' like it's some sort of operating system, but I just can't kick the habit.

I think it's the tabs. For whatever reason, chrome is simply the best browser for those 50 tab research sessions. It's also the best file downloader, the most configurable, has the best extension ecosystem. It manages to be the best pro-user's browser, and the best layperson's browser at the same time.

I still have all three browsers sitting in my dock. I just use Chrome by default.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by vcarl on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @10:50AM (#10980644)
Fun trick I learned with Chrome: Click a tab, then shift-click another tab. The tabs should darken, and if you drag them, they all move as a unit. Very handy when you have sessions that kind of diverged and you'd like to mentally separate them.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by sawwit on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:12PM (#10981272)
I can't recommend the Tree Style Tabs FF add-on enough for these kinds of "large sessions that diverge into many sub-sessions". If you ctrl-click a link, this add-on creates a new child-tab of the current tab and loads the link there. It kind of builds little spanning trees of the WWW graph, which seems to be a very natural way of browsing the web, but you can also organize these tab trees completely freely with drag & drop.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by DiabloD3 on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:40PM (#10981480)
You can select tabs using your normal item selecting techniques, including control and shift.

I wish all browsers would inherit this, that is a very powerful thing.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by vlunkr on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @10:59AM (#10980717)
This is me exactly. I can't stand the UI in FF. It seems to change too much and it's ugly. There are probably plugins to help with that, but I haven't invested the time to look into it. It's also hard to kick the Chrome dev tools.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by sawwit on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:19AM (#10980861)
How is FF ugly? I don't find the UI very different from Chrome and Safari.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by wahsd on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:29PM (#10981399)
I don't know what it is, but I agree. There is something subtly and subconsciously going on that nudges me away from FF too. I think it's the loose feeling UI, the default smiley face icon of the chat that I don't know anyone uses, the paper airplane as the share icon. It's that there is still not unified search/address bar even if one would prefer it without running a poorly executed extension. It's that the tabs feel so childish with the far too rounded corners and loose padding and it's even the few pixels more of padding between the address bar and the tabs boundary. It's the small font of the address bar, it's the disproportionately large back button, it's the apparent lack of design and style requirements for extension icons that make them look blurry and generally shitty and bolted on in the UI, etc.

I know that all that maybe sounds rather petty and maybe there's something wrong with me and it's my biases for some reason, but it just all adds up to a fuzzy notion of childishness and less than "down to business" feel. I say that as someone that used to exclusively use FF and shunned Chrome for all the various reasons mentioned by others.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by sawwit on Sunday January 31, 2016 @04:12PM (#11008092)
Care to list those reasons. Genuinely interested, and not sure which reasons you are referring to.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by cptskippy on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:26AM (#10980908)
I don't get how he thinks it's ugly or different.

Not only is it very similar but, unlike Chrome or Safari, every aspect of it is customizable so you can make it look however you want. Out of the box you can rearrange the the UI elements to match Chrome or Safari.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by swozey on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:52AM (#10981096)
I absolutely hate the FF UI. I WANT to use FF, I actually switched a few months ago and did it for a couple of months. I THINK my problem (I say think because I feel like someone will measure the pixel and say I'm wrong) is that it feels like there is a ton of wasted space between the tabs, above the tabs. etc. I can't control the size of the top bars and they're huge compared to chrome. I'm a fan of tiny icons and very, very compact UIs so that I can get more on the screen at once. Here's my comparison on a 28" monitor https://www.dropbox.com/s/k32gln7s3ev5a7t/Screenshot%202016-...
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by cpeterso on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:30PM (#10981409)
You might try the "Custom Tab Width" add-on to shrink your Firefox tabs. I also like to set my toolbar bookmarks' names to an empty string, so my toolbar is just a bunch of bookmark favicons.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/custom-tab-wi...

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by JupiterMoon on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:19PM (#10981326)
Hang on the chrome UI at the top takes up a couple of mm more vertically than the FF one. What other differences are there?
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by noir_lord on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @02:13PM (#10982274)
For me it's the other way around, I use FF for everything but dev sessions where I use Chrome (I prefer it's dev tools).

I tried breaking the habit for a while but I ended up opening FF all the time by muscle memory.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by Tiksi on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @03:54PM (#10983238)
Plugins can get you a very compact ui: http://paste.click/XfPZOR

I'm also a fan of minimal as possible.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by sawwit on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:04PM (#10981197)
Perhaps give Tree Style Tabs on FF a try.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by coldtea on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:11PM (#10981262)
It's quite different, and because of XUL it also falls in the uncanny valley of looking like native widgets but not behaving exactly like them.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by corv on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:25PM (#10981365)
I'd say FF Developer Edition has the best UI out of all of them.

Nothing fits better next to a terminal window or a code editor.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by macNchz on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:41AM (#10981010)
Not all that different these days. http://imgur.com/qII55SM

The new FF UI has been out and stable for nearly two years now.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by ProAm on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:59AM (#10981153)
FF changes the UI very frequently. Even the last update from 42 to 43 had changes. I love FF and its my only browser but this is one of the most irritating things they do. Maintaining a standard UI is a must to retaining users (and keeping them upgrading).
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by wahsd on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:37PM (#10981452)
I think you are underestimating the impact of the subtle nature of the differences. For me, it really kind of annoys me that FF seems to have a looser UI than Chrome. It's those couple of pixels of padding between address bar and tabs, it's the wider/longer tab due to padding, etc..

And now that I think about it, it's even things like the tab behavior where Chrome condenses tabs and FF just pushes them out of view an adds the disgusting scroll UI. Maybe that's a personal preference thing, but I would very much prefer having a dense overview rather than having what is essentially a nested scrolling.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by fredley on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:53AM (#10981110)
I'm assuming there's an extension to merge the URL and search bars to get Chrome-like behaviour?
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by macNchz on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:57AM (#10981130)
Yes you can enable search suggestions in the URL bar right in the Firefox preferences and hide the separate search box. I keep them separate because I don't care to have everything I type in the URL bar be sent to Google by default.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by sawwit on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:09PM (#10981243)
Exactly. The divide between address bar and search bar is a much under-appreciated privacy feature.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by ripdog on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:00PM (#10981165)
Omnibar is what you're looking for.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by zbjornson on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:39AM (#10980998)
How can you live without FF's 3D DOM view?!

More seriously, FF's dev tools have felt more advanced than Chrome's for a while, including the ability to edit and resend an XHR request.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by vlunkr on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:38PM (#10981459)
The 3D DOM view is really neat, but so far I haven't found a practical use for it.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by martinczerwi on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:29AM (#10980931)
For UI check out Firefox Dev Edition, clean and classy alternative. And the dev tools take some time, but they're likeable for sure.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by Callmenorm on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:58AM (#10981141)
The problem I have with FF dev tools is that json responses are hideous, just one long string. Where Chrome's look like json with expandable fields.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by martinczerwi on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @06:08PM (#10984338)
In the network panel (in FF), I have a structured view on JSON data, and can expand nested objects and arrays (like here https://mdn.mozillademos.org/files/7421/nm-response-json.png). Same goes for JS objects, which is a thing that bugged me long time.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by diggan on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @10:49AM (#10980636)
I can't ditch Firefox for the exact same reason! I NEED to have my tabs on the left side or the right side. I can't have it in the top because I end up not seeing any titles, just favicons, and that doesn't really give me anything.

Try the Firefox Developer Edition or Aurora (Alpha channel, rarely crashes but the performance is much better than current stable) together with TreeStyleTabs. Maybe that will help you out. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by FungalRaincloud on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:47AM (#10981063)
I recently installed vimium on chrome, and being able to quick navigate to a specific tab via keyboard (by typing the title or selecting it from a list) has completely eradicated my issue with finding tabs on chrome. There's something like vimium on Firefox, but I haven't really looked into it. I mainly use chrome because I use chrome. I just don't feel like putting the energy into setting up Firefox how I like it. currently, my chrome history is synced between a bunch of devices nicely. Between setting up that and having to find alternatives to all the addons I use, making the switch just doesn't sound fun.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by darkr on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:17PM (#10981310)
> There's something like vimium on Firefox

Vimperator. It offers more functionality/hackability than Vimium as well (not that vimium is bad - I'm a happy user of both firefox/vimperator and chrome/vimium).

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by wiremine on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:03PM (#10981188)
> It's certainly snappier than the alternatives.

I recently got a new, high-end Macbook Pro (16GB, 1TB SSD, i7 2.8Gz). I've been a long-time Chrome user, but I figured this would be a good time to try Safari: I've heard good things about it's energy usage.

I used Safari as my primary browser for about 2 weeks, and just switched back to Chrome. Safari wasn't bad, but it seems to take a LONG time to make connections to websites. And sometimes it would just hang indefinitely. At first I thought this was a machine issue, but all my other networking apps (Chrome, Postman, etc.) return immediately.

Like parent comment, I really want to like Safari...

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by mhb on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:50PM (#10981560)
Energy usage? What would the difference in energy used be for Chrome vs. Safari vs. Firefox?
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by wiremine on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:54PM (#10981591)
Check out this article, or google around for others. Apple has spent a lot of time making Safari more efficient to extend battery life:

http://bgr.com/2015/08/05/google-chrome-vs-safari-battery-li...

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by mhb on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @03:31PM (#10983018)
Ah. I wasn't thinking of batteries.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by untog on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @10:59AM (#10980710)
I was the same, but eventually Chrome's slowness and resource-intensiveness (this is on OS X, of course) drove me to Safari.

Chrome is still my 'dev' browser though, and having the two separate is actually quite nice.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by paulojreis on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:12AM (#10980804)
That's my setup, essentially. Chrome as my 'dev' browser, as I'm too familiar with its devs tools.

Another nice thing about having a browser only for development is that, when you're demo'ing, there's less of a risk to show unwanted stuff (e.g. address bar suggestions). :)

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by culturestate on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:14PM (#10981285)
> Another nice thing about having a browser only for development is that, when you're demo'ing, there's less of a risk to show unwanted stuff

I go a little further and use distinct Chrome profiles for every project to avoid this. It also helps to keep saved credentials for e.g. client-specific SaaS accounts separate without commingling them with my own 1Password vault.

*I know 1Password now supports multiple vaults, but I haven't had a chance to try that workflow yet.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by gruez on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @10:59AM (#10980718)
disclosure: I'm a firefox user.

>I think it's the tabs. [...] It's also the best file downloader

In what way? The only difference I can see is the download status bar, but that's available on firefox as an extension.

>the most configurable

debatable, considering firefox has a bunch of about:config options, whereas chrome has a few configurable flags.

>has the best extension ecosystem.

Can you elaborate this? My impression was that firefox's ecosystem was better because addons can do more (thanks to XUL), whereas chrome addons are limited to glorified userscripts.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by autoreleasepool on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:48AM (#10981071)
> In what way? The only difference I can see is the download status bar, but that's available on firefox as an extension.

Yes, I've tried to replicate Chrome's UI with Firefox extension. But it feels like I'm using extensions. Furthermore, I really don't enjoy configuring browsers because between work, school, and hobbies I use a lot of different machine. For this reason, if I'm using firefox, it's usually with the default UI... which is not my personal preference.

>> has the best extension ecosystem.

> Can you elaborate this?

Take a cursory glance at each of the two stores:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/

vs

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/category/extensions

Aesthetically speaking, the firefox add ons page is the Tux Racer to chrome's Mario Kart.

One has the passion and enthusiasm of well respected open source volunteers behind it, and the other has a sleek high quality shine only our dear corporate overlords could deliver. This is minor, but it sets the mood the for the whole experience of add ons. (Of which, I only need uBlock Origin"). In general, it's easier to find what I'm looking for, see what's trending, and generally browse for extensions in the chrome store. EDIT: The chrome store is also much faster and more responsive.

Aside from that, Chrome seems to have more active developers because of it's better brand name. On /r/cscareerqustions, for example, you'll hear people ask about ideas for resume-boosting side projects. One of the first answers is usually "make a chrome extension". I have yet to see anyone say "make a firefox extension" or "make a cross platform browser extension".

Either way, it's all personal preference. I'm sure you prefer a different model car, style of clothing, and a favorite color than me too. It's all ok. There's no right answer here.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by amlgsmsn on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:56AM (#10981124)
>One has the passion and enthusiasm of well respected open source volunteers behind it, and the other has a sleek high quality shine only our dear corporate overlords could deliver. This is minor, but it sets the mood the for the whole experience of add ons.

Doesn't Mozilla spend a lot on Firefox development? Like in the hundreds or tens of millions of dollars range? They have very nice and grand offices, lavish even interns with expense paid trips and food, so I don't really know what you're talking about.

[Edit: They spend $212M on Software Development in 2014 alone]

E.g. https://ryanseys.com/blog/summer-at-mozilla/

>Interns at Mozilla, myself included, are truly spoiled rotten. Competitive pay, free travel/housing, free snacks/drinks and catered lunches every week were really just icing on the massive cake that was my internship!

>Oh, and did I mention that Mozilla also sent me to Paris, France?! Yeah, it happened. For my final working week, myself and a handful of the Identity team met up in the Paris office and hacked on Persona, and ate… and drank… a lot!

http://www.businessinsider.com/inside-mozillas-amazing-offic...

http://ngokevin.com/blog/mozilla-day-one/

What kind of open source volunteers have perks like these?

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by autoreleasepool on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:02PM (#10981180)
Sorry, I don't understand what point you're making. I was strictly speaking about the aesthetics of their extensions pages. Those were descriptions of the impressions they give.

I was purposefully judging the book by it's cover, because I was talking strictly about the cover. I know FireFox is a brilliant piece of engineering and I never mentioned Mozilla. Red Hat spends a lot on Linux development too, doesn't mean anything about the aesthetics of the platform.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by erics32 on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @01:35PM (#10981935)
The aesthetics of the FF addon marketplace are the way they are because Mozilla neglected that property for many years. There's currently a new initiative to redesign and build out an updated version of the marketplace, so expect the design to look like the chrome one soon.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by rconti on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @01:49PM (#10982058)
I really like Safari on OS X. It's my go-to browser on my personal machine, and on my work machine, it's my "personal" browser (I'm typing this into safari). I use Chrome for my work stuff.

But maybe this is down to your tab preferences. I simply hate tabs. To me, they're the sign of a failed window manager. I don't feel it's the job of every application to reinvent the UX wheel and implement tab functions differently from every other application.

Maybe some day an operating system will support tabs natively?

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by notwhereyouare on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:13AM (#10980807)
>the most configurable, has the best extension ecosystem.

that's why I haven't left chrome. I HATE some of the stuff they (google) do, but I can make this my browser and I like the overall appearance

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by akerro on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:22AM (#10980882)
Can you force it not to download binary blobs that turn on your microphone?
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by overcast on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:19AM (#10980862)
I came in here, to share my experience between Safari and Chrome, and it looks like you've iterated exactly the same sentiment. After El Capitan came out, and the changes to Safari, I REALLY gave it a shot. A sleek interface, and certainly fast, but it chews through RAM at an insane rate. There is no rhyme or reason to it, I can have a fresh window open, restore previous session of ten tabs, and after a few hours, each tab starts consuming 5GB+ of RAM until everything is exhausted. Chrome(Canary) on the other hand, twice as many tabs open, and it never runs away with RAM usage. It still uses a hundred megs per tab, but none of them go crazy. I need to have every browser under the sun installed for testing, but Chrome is the only thing I can keep opening without killing my Mac Pro that has 28GB of RAM.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by ZanyProgrammer on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:53AM (#10981108)
Its hard to parse these responses because everyone says that their browser that they don't use uses RAM at ridiculous rates.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by overcast on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @03:58PM (#10983275)
I use every browser, Safari primarily since El Capitan. It was only in the last week or so that I've just had enough of dealing with it killing my machine. I had to systematically kill each tab process on a regular basis.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by harryf on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @10:53AM (#10980665)
For me it's the address bar - (desktop) Safaris hiding of everything to the right domain name annoys me - over hiding useful info
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by untog on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @10:54AM (#10980677)
You can change that - "Show full website address" in Advanced options.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by germanier on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @10:55AM (#10980682)
You can change that by going to settings. In the "Advanced" tab you can check "Show full website address".
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by forgottenpass on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:25AM (#10980899)
I think it's the tabs. For whatever reason, chrome is simply the best browser for those 50 tab research sessions.

You might like this: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by iamben on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:15PM (#10981298)
'The Great Suspender' has been invaluable for me (a heavy tab user) in clawing back some system resources.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/the-great-suspende...

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by rangibaby on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @10:57AM (#10980700)
I think you're just used to Chrome. There isn't really that much seperating Chrome, Safari, and Firefox these days.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by e40 on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:06AM (#10980769)
Not true. I went from Chrome to FF, but after 6 months on FF I was just too annoyed to stay on FF. It was mainly the crashes in one tab taking down the entire browser, but there were a lot of things that annoyed the crap out of me. Going back to Chrome felt like a weight was lifted from my shoulders.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by rangibaby on Thursday January 28, 2016 @11:20AM (#10989038)
Did you find out what was causing the crashes? I'm curious because FF is rock solid for me. I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work out for you.

Having used Firefox since it was Firebird (lol), I can tell you it goes through noticeable cycles of being awesome and just plain bad. Working hard to become the fastest browser an example of the former, and the whole Pocket fiasco being an example of the latter.

ATM I use Safari as my main browser, Firefox for testing websites and some other plugins, and Chrome for the built-in Flash (I don't have Flash on my system).

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by xyzzy4 on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:47AM (#10981065)
Chrome forced the rest to become better.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by rangibaby on Thursday January 28, 2016 @11:11AM (#10988980)
That's a good point. The emergence of Chrome certainly lit a fire under Firefox's ass. Being "just" better than IE6 was no longer good enough.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by jacobolus on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @02:15PM (#10982288)
> For whatever reason, chrome is simply the best browser for those 50 tab research sessions

Wait, what? For me, Chrome is utterly unusable for “research sessions” (aka routine browsing). It starts chewing up resources like crazy and completely falls over when I try using it for any amount of time with 25+ tabs open. Google’s non-search webapps seem to be particular offenders: more than a few tabs of them open in Chrome brings my fast laptop to its knees.

Firefox is good up to about 100 tabs, but becomes a big CPU and memory hog and inevitably crashes after a day or two.

In Safari, I routinely keep 200+ tabs open for weeks at a time with no problem (though eventually I start running out of system memory; not sure if there’s a slow memory leak, or if badly written websites just require indefinitely large amounts when kept open, or what; usually by that point there’s a new security update to install in any case).

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by TheOtherHobbes on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @07:33PM (#10984857)
Right now I have an insane 503 tabs open in Chrome. (Sometimes I'm lazy, and I forget to clean up.)

But I have 32GB RAM. And The Great Suspender, which is a must-have for anyone who uses Chrome.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by QuantumCookie on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @12:43PM (#10981501)
Firefox's tab groups, combined with "Don't load tabs until I click on them", are what I use to deal with dozens of tabs. Though being able to have more groups sat in the background with comparatively little performance hit definitely feeds my tab addiction...
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by meburns on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:22AM (#10980883)
This is exactly the same experience I have had. I gave Safari a few months, added extensions, etc. I just found myself banging my head against the wall over certain things that Chrome had natively that Safari choose not to have.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by thrownaway2424 on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:31AM (#10980948)
Being logged into chrome is really the best feature they offer. I love having all my tabs on all my devices, and a unified omnibox history and all that.
Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by barrkel on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:37AM (#10980982)
Until Chrome has Tree Style Tabs, it's not a viable competitor to FF for me.

Chrome is a fine development environment though.

Re:Apple Safari users suffer crashes by executive on Wednesday January 27, 2016 @11:27AM (#10980912)
I use Chrome for the Duplicate Tab feature.