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Re:Shadowy tech brokers that deliver your data to the NSA by mtgx on Sunday January 24, 2016 @08:25AM (#10962424)
I wish we pushed for a law that said you can only serve a warrant for a data request to the person whose data you want. I think from a human rights principle it makes the most sense. The only reason the government can take it from third parties that store our data for us is because it's "easier" for them to do that, and because there hasn't been enough pushback against it.

Imagine if the government said "hey, that money in your bank account, we can just automatically take our taxes from it, because we're not really taking it from you, we're just taking it from the bank." Probably not the most accurate analogy, but I think you see where I'm going with this.

Since the ruling that invalidated Safe Harbor, Microsoft has been pushing for laws and agreements between nations that say law enforcement shouldn't be coming to Microsoft (as a cloud service provider) with a warrant for data requests, but to their corporate customers. So for instance, if FastMail uses the Azure cloud service, they're saying that if the government wants access to a user's data, they shouldn't be going to Microsoft but to FastMail with the warrant.

It's a small improvement, but Microsoft and all of the other companies should be pushing so this works for all of their customers, not just the corporate ones. It's exactly the same principle, but Microsoft just takes the easier way out here, because that still gets them off the hook, and it's really what they care most about. The corporations (even if they are "people") shouldn't be having more rights than actual people.

Re:Shadowy tech brokers that deliver your data to the NSA by justabystander on Sunday January 24, 2016 @12:25PM (#10963136)
> Imagine if the government said "hey, that money in your bank account, we can just automatically take our taxes from it, because we're not really taking it from you, we're just taking it from the bank."

That's exactly the logic used to justify civil asset forfeiture. There was a link on here two months ago showing that the assets seized were more than all burglaries in 2014: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10591250 .

Re:Shadowy tech brokers that deliver your data to the NSA by Terr_ on Sunday January 24, 2016 @02:04PM (#10963543)
Unfortunately there is a flip-side to that: How do you investigate or prosecute a company (for, say, fraudulent billing) when they insist that you need a million individual warrants to prove your case?
Re:Shadowy tech brokers that deliver your data to the NSA by secondtimeuse on Sunday January 24, 2016 @04:07PM (#10964008)
Thanks, most privacy activists conveniently forget this argument. In most cases, the absolute approach taken by most privacy activists ends up hurting Students/Patients/Customers etc. since Universities/Hospitals & Insurers/Companies cite privacy laws to escape from the burden of accountability. At the same time the entities are free to mine their own data under guise of "Performance enhancement".

Essentially stringent privacy laws often have adverse effect where activities that might be of public benefit Research on Rare diseases/Teacher Accountability/Class action lawsuits are curtailed.

Re:Shadowy tech brokers that deliver your data to the NSA by secondtimeuse on Sunday January 24, 2016 @04:00PM (#10963991)
"hey, that money in your bank account, we can just automatically take our taxes from it, because we're not really taking it from you, we're just taking it from the bank."

>> You are clearly not familiar with how IRS functions. IRS can and often times does automatically freeze bank accounts if they suspect tax evasion.[1]

The reality is that when it comes to user data the analogy is even weaker, since most user data is transactional in nature. Hence both parties can assert their rights. This is particularly of importance in medical data. Where there are no laws that assure patients of his ownership of his own data.[2]

In reality when it comes to information/data the ownership argument is on a shaky legal grounds. And in some cases data ownership might be counterproductive.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8509500 [2] http://jolt.law.harvard.edu/articles/pdf/v25/25HarvJLTech69....

Re:Shadowy tech brokers that deliver your data to the NSA by jMyles on Sunday January 24, 2016 @08:59AM (#10962499)
> I wish we pushed for a law that said you can only serve a warrant for a data request to the person whose data you want

Among the potential problems with such a solution is that it gives the government the imperative to adjudicate the "ultimate owner" of data. It will not always be obvious, and when it's not, it can surely be decided in such a way that tramples, rather than bolsters, individual rights over data.

Re:Shadowy tech brokers that deliver your data to the NSA by eximius on Sunday January 24, 2016 @08:52PM (#10965126)
The have more stringent requirements for the warrant that doesn't need to determine the owner.