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Re:India's telecom regulator cracks down on Facebook for its... by winter_blue on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @03:36PM (#10933795)
That's not very strange. In every country there are people working for their own benefit against the good of the nation. It's called the tragedy of the commons.

This kind of thing is actually all too common in the United States. One (rather shocking) example of this is/was the promotion of Oxycodone, a drug derived from Opium to doctors all over the US for common cases of pain.[1] Purdue Pharma spent millions promoting the use of Oxycodone for minor cases of pain, and misrepresenting its addictiveness. This has more or less been responsible for the heroin epidemic in the US, with the consequence being thousands upon thousands of lives being destroyed (first through addiction, and then by death).

And I might be wrong here, but in my experience, the vast majority Americans actually care a lot lot more about the common good than Indians. In my experience, a lot of Indians (in India) will happily screw over their neighbors and their country for their own selfish gain. Conscientious Indians are hard to come by. The few who stand up for what is right, get killed[2] or trampled over[3].

One glaring example of this is how people in India have no problems trashing the streets of the very cities/towns they live in. The streets of most major cities in India look like steaminggarbage dumps. I suppose they think: "What do I care? It's public property, not my home." And they litter the streets with garbage.

If a country like the United States, where the majority people are actually a lot more conscientious, moral, and patriotic[4] than most countries has problems of a few screwing over the majority, then there's nothing shocked about.

[1] http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/10/the-new-he...

[2] Satyendra Dubey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyendra_Dubey

[3] One of my relatives worked for an Indian government agency. He wouldn't stand for any corruption, and fought against from the inside. The people in the agency literally ruined his life. He even sued some of these people, and the case went all the way to the Supreme Court of India, and he actually won the case -- but the compensation he won for all that he had went through was a pittance. He ended up dying in his early 50s from a heart attack, most likely from the stress from all of this. His entire life was consumed by this.

The level of corruption in government in India is staggering. From the highest to the lowest levels of government, everyone cares just about themselves (and their families) and is a Judas to everyone else, their neighbors, and the nation as a whole. It is very sad.

[4] Being patriotic should mean actually caring about the country and people in the country -- that manifests itself in the person's behavior. Not empty words. By this measure, a lot of Indians living in India are some of the least patriotic people in the world.

Re:India's telecom regulator cracks down on Facebook for its... by flux988 on Wednesday January 20, 2016 @12:36AM (#10936253)
Your comment is just full of wild generalizations and prejudice. It has absolutely no basis at all - there is no emperical evidence that India is any more corrupt than any country with a similar per-capita - on the contrary there is evidence to believe that India is a lot less corrupt than a lot of other countries with a much higher per-capita (China).

The examples that you mentioned are picked out to just confirm your bias, lack of understanding and maybe a personal inferiority complex - the narrative can be constructed for any country on the planet by picking out facts.

The Indian grandfather who was paralyzed recently in the US - the police officer has been acquited - does that mean that the US police force is incompetent or the jury racist. Going by your arguments its both - and most conscientious Americans havent dont anything to fix it.

Indians (in India) will happily screw over their neighbours - but Indians in America won't ? Is it because they administer a special serum when you take the long flight which makes them conscientious or is it just a convenient argument.

The squalor in India's cities has nothing to do with being conscientious - it is simply because most Indian cities have one of the lowest per-capita civic spends in the world (because of extreme poverty) and lack of autonomous municipal govts.

Re:India's telecom regulator cracks down on Facebook for its... by winter_blue on Friday January 22, 2016 @11:28AM (#10953663)
I doubt China is as (or more) corrupt than India. There is ton of corruption in China, yes, but the people at the top do seem to care about China doing well economically, and about improving the living standards of the people in their country. Could you say that's true for India?

I'm speaking from experience, and based on what I've seen. In statistics, you don't survey the entire population, but rather you take a small sample. I think I've a statistically significant sampling of experiences.

The police-related issues in the US is a serious threat to personal liberty, and there are a lot of people fighting for it to be corrected. You are entirely wrong when you say "and most conscientious Americans havent dont anything to fix it" -- the people have responded overwhelmingly, and there is huge push and fight underway to correct the moral/social injustice. Just read the news.

I said "Indians (in India)" because, yes, there is a difference. If you surround yourself Americans, and spend time with them on a regular basis, you will naturally, over the course of time become more like them. If you always stick around other Indians, then you will not change. I've had bad experiences with non-family Indian people. Various Indian friends I've had at various points in my life have screwed me over / been a bad friend to me at a much higher frequency than my American friends. These days, I keep people who are too Indian (culturally / identity-wise) at an arm's distance, and avoid getting too close to them.

I've just had really lopsided experiences. The majority of my American friends have been genuinely been friends. In times of trouble, they've sincerely empathized and actually tried to help. A bunch of Indian "friends" I had in the past, would laugh when I got into unfortunate circumstances, and they certainly would not try to help. There are good and bad people on both sides, but the majority of Americans I've come in contact with, have been a much better people, character-wise.

Regarding the squalor, your "poverty" argument is cop-out. Cities like Bangalore, which are filled with tech companies, still look like steaming garbage dumps. Why? Because the people don't care. The cost to clean up the city, and keep it clean on a regular basis, would be tiny. Simply collecting 50 rupees per month from the residents of Bangalore who make above a certain wage, would be, by far, sufficient to make the city speck and clean. What makes me irate is total apathy of the majority of these people about the cleanliness of the public spaces of the cities they live in. I've seen people in nice cars, open their window, and toss garbage onto the sidewalks/streets. It's pathetic and disgusting. It tells something about their character/culture.

Re:India's telecom regulator cracks down on Facebook for its... by winter_blue on Saturday January 23, 2016 @04:18AM (#10957764)
On second thought, I take my words back. I need to reflect a bit more on this.

I don't think it's right to base my opinion on these certain limited things.

Re:India's telecom regulator cracks down on Facebook for its... by flux988 on Thursday January 28, 2016 @12:47PM (#10989789)
I understand where all this is coming from, and I can share very detailed counter points to each of your claims but maybe you are getting there yourself.

You are taking a purely 'Etic' view of things and supplementing with an 'Emic' view typically gives a better perspective. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emic_and_etic

Re:India's telecom regulator cracks down on Facebook for its... by awakeasleep on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @08:34PM (#10935465)
Overall I agree with your point but I want to make a squabble with your example.

Purdue's marketing of Oxycontin definitely crossed my line of honesty, BUT there has been, historically, an enormous amount of untreated pain in the US (probably everywhere), because of the stigma around those drugs.

It's ok for someone to develop a tolerance and addiction to the drug if they have the actual pain issue. That is usually less disruptive to someone's life than living with crippling pain. In a way, getting opiate pain medication into the hands of more people is a good thing.

The problem was a little more complicated- 1) Perdue promoted Oxycontin in a misleading way. 2) This happened during an economic downturn with our post-manufacturing economy turning out tons of people on disability, and others without a clear future. 3) Legislators freaked out, making it harder for doctors to prescribe opiates without making it easier for them to prescribe opiate treatment pills like suboxone, which basically forces addicted users of pharmaceuticals onto the street to score heroin.

So it's a social, legislative, and corporate morality problem all at the same time.

Re:India's telecom regulator cracks down on Facebook for its... by alainv on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @11:48PM (#10936137)
It's rare to come across such an earnest belief in American exceptionalism these days. Do you have any sources for any of your positive assertions about the average American, or is it mainly personal experience/observed/anecdotal?
Re:India's telecom regulator cracks down on Facebook for its... by winter_blue on Friday January 22, 2016 @11:34AM (#10953709)
I'm speaking mostly based on what I've seen and hat I've experienced.

In statistics, you don't survey the entire population, but rather you take a small sample -- and I think I've had a statistically significant sampling of experiences.

Re:India's telecom regulator cracks down on Facebook for its... by eklavya on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @11:18PM (#10936064)
I take strong exception to your extreme interpolation. You found 3 anecdotes in a country of 1.25 billion people and branded them the least patriotic bunch? I actually live here and it's far from the truth. Can you name any other country where the people fasted and rid it of foreign dependency on food imports by one call of their prime minister? This is just one example, please research/understand countries/people before making such bigoted (Americans are much more patriotic) statements.
Re:India's telecom regulator cracks down on Facebook for its... by rspeer on Wednesday January 20, 2016 @01:30AM (#10936390)
"Bigoted" is an unnecessarily strong and insulting word to apply. The GP sounds like he is of Indian descent and unsatisfied with the way things are in his family's country of origin, which is anyone's right.
Re:India's telecom regulator cracks down on Facebook for its... by eklavya on Wednesday January 20, 2016 @01:58AM (#10936454)
I only disagreed with his claim "Indians are least patriotic, Americans are more patriotic". I didn't say anything about the rest of the comment. I wrote a strong word because the claim was extraordinary.
Re:India's telecom regulator cracks down on Facebook for its... by shawn-furyan on Wednesday January 20, 2016 @03:09AM (#10936639)
> If a country like the United States, where the majority people are actually a lot more conscientious, moral, and patriotic[4] than most countries

yikes...