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A comment on Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years.

Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by abraae on Monday January 18, 2016 @10:30PM (#10928717)
This story resonates with me.

Here in New Zealand, we have many native species of birds, insects, frogs, lizards and the like that thrived when our islands were cut off from the rest of the planet, but that have become extinct, or are in imminent danger of being so due to introduced predators such as rats, stoats, hedgehogs, ferrets, cats etc. etc.

It leads to the bizarre situation that conservation here is largely about killing things.

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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by teekert on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @03:36AM (#10929387)
It also leads to the bizarre situation that local biodiversity may increase while global biodiversity decreases.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by journeeman on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @05:04AM (#10929678)
How so?
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by nroets on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @06:28AM (#10930000)
Let's say the tree lobster on Lord Howe is replaced by rats and cats. Then Lord Howe lost one specie and gained 2, for a net gain of one specie. So local biodiversity increased. The planet lost one specie, so global biodiversity decreased.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by xanthopan on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @11:05AM (#10931562)
I'm sure Lord Howe lost much more than just one species of tree lobster.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by hampizza on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @09:06PM (#10935593)
You're right. go down to page 26 of this pdf: http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/threatenedspecie...

Makes for scary reading!

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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by yareally on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @12:59PM (#10932454)
That assumes nothing else in the ecosystem was dependent on the lost species.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by xenihn on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @04:30PM (#10934208)
You think the rats won't continue to displace other species? And what happens to the rats when there's nothing left to displace? And then what happens to the cats?
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by djsumdog on Monday January 18, 2016 @11:10PM (#10928817)
I lived in Wellington for about three years. NZ is truly one of the most beautiful places in the world. It is sad how many of the birds are threatened or endangered because of invasive species. NZ customs is pretty diligent about preventing harmful things from coming into the country thankfully.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by cfontes on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @01:30PM (#10932738)
I still have a bit of sadness when I get to NZ and remember we humans killed all the Moas very early after landing there, would be so interesting to see one alive.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by BurningFrog on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @02:49PM (#10933423)
Give it time: http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/10248028/Expert-supports-...
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by SapphireSun on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @12:57AM (#10929089)
It's the same in the Galapagos islands too. I wonder how it is that rats are so fierce that they destroy everything they touch...
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by abraae on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @01:10AM (#10929121)
Rats are terrible all right, though stoats are worse. There has been some success with new locally developed trap technologies. These ones use a CO2 cylinder to strike the rats or stoats, then reset themselves automatically. http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1402/S00802/unprecedented-0.... Much better if you're a city boy who doesn't really like dealing with traps and dead animals too much.

We use a bigger version to catch possums. Its hard to tell how many we catch though, as the feral pigs like to carry off and eat the dead ones. Its really a fascinating logistical problem trying to eradicate a broad spectrum of pests.

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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by Xunxi on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @09:35AM (#10930964)
Neat product, well thought out internal engineering but pretty pricey for domestic use. http://www.goodnature.co.nz/products/rat-stoat/
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by aerique on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @04:57AM (#10929655)
That's basically what rats do. I've got pet rats and they're cute and intelligent, but they're rodents optimized for breeding. That can breed so fast it isn't even funny and they destroy everything with their teeth to either eat it or build nests from the bits and pieces or just to test it out with their teeth.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by kale on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @09:54AM (#10931105)
Rats are crazy awesome. They're not mice or hamsters or gerbils. They are so much more intelligent and can have a personality. And I'm convinced that hamster personality is a scale of how likely it is to bite you

That being said, wild rats are very destructive because of their hardiness and intelligence. Raccoons may be the top animal for intelligence in urban environments, but they can't match rats for their destructive potential.

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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by ionforce on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @10:13AM (#10931251)
It could be argued that every organism is optimized for breeding.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by knodi123 on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @12:24PM (#10932171)
He means well optimized, not just "did their best". Look at the Panda's difficulties.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by JBReefer on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @02:35PM (#10933309)
Pandas : Rats :: Bubblesort : Timsort
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by ivanhoe on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @12:25PM (#10932181)
the issue is not that much about them breeding a lot, as much as it's a lack of predators to control the population...
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by misja111 on Wednesday January 20, 2016 @03:26AM (#10936711)
It's because rats, like humans, are omnivores.

Many predators live in balance with the population of their preys. When the predators are too successful, the prey population will diminish, which causes the predator population to shrink, which is good for the preys, etc.

But omnivores like rats can wipe out an entire prey population and then just switch to some other source of food.

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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by PhasmaFelis on Wednesday January 20, 2016 @05:19AM (#10937107)
Rats devastate island populations in particular because those populations aren't evolved to deal with them. Relatively remote islands create a sort of pocket ecosystem where new organisms can't easily arrive from outside, so all the resident species evolve to deal with only the local threats and to fit snugly into their niche. But rats are the end product of a ongoing continent-wide evolutionary battle; they're flexible, they're great at dealing with new situations, and the locals aren't.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by Sven7 on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @01:09AM (#10929118)
We are currently studying Facebook and Wall Street to answer that.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by magicmu on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @08:35AM (#10930591)
In New Zealand, isn't there also a huge insect called the Weta? I've never been to your beautiful homeland, but I've heard tales. I wonder what exactly differentiates these "tree lobsters" from Weta.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by alistairSH on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @09:15AM (#10930846)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weta

Weta are a bit like large, nocturnal crickets. There are more than one variety, but you're probably thinking of the giant variety.

We get a relative of them here in the US, usually called cave crickets or camel crickets (here in VA).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhaphidophoridae

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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by bovermyer on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @05:03PM (#10934446)
Camel crickets can go directly to hell. They loved our basement when my family was living in Virginia and just about gave me a heart attack every time I went down there.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by mylons on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @10:15AM (#10931259)
you forgot to mention humans.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by rottyguy on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @09:20AM (#10930873)
Love your country when I was there 2yrs ago but must admit I thought the policies to inventory everything at the airport (I've never had my shoes checked for soil/mud before) was a losing proposition. It struck me that the prevailing thought was that NZ was so fragile that anything foreign could tip the scales and cause catastrophic consequences (eg. for those old enough to remember the Boy in a Plastic Bubble). Which might happen but life evolves... (which also happens)
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by WD-42 on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @10:04AM (#10931177)
Did you read the article? Yes, ecosystems can be fragile. New Zealand has (rightfully) decided to protect theirs, even if it means a slight inconvenience at the airport.
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by rottyguy on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @02:17PM (#10933141)
Of course they have a right to do whatever, but I'm just saying it seems like a losing strategy. Bugs and Birds get blown off course, rats sneak on ships, etc. all the time. Just saying it seems like an impossible task to police this...
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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by abraae on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @02:44PM (#10933374)
Certainly an immensely challenging task, but hopefully not impossible. We have hardly begun to apply new technology to the problem - drones, new lures, mesh networks, low cost cameras.

Also we've stopped those pesky Victorians from introducing new species. Its a good thing they never introduced wildcats to control the stoats, weasels and ferrets - which they introduced to control the rabbits - which they introduced to give them something to shoot at on quiet Sunday afternnons.

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Re:Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides for 80 Years by zenbane on Tuesday January 19, 2016 @10:27AM (#10931322)
SAY NO TO DIDDYMO
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