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Re:How to get rich in tech by andy_ppp on Thursday December 24, 2015 @01:28AM (#10787345)
The old fixed vs growth mindset at work. There is nothing to stop you becoming an exceptional engineer, except your beliefs of course.
Re:How to get rich in tech by wishful on Thursday December 24, 2015 @05:52AM (#10787783)
Of course there is. First, there is your biology. You might simply not be intelligent enough to become a great engineer. If you set the cut-off for greatness at "published a widely influential paper" or "designed a large distributed system from ground up" this becomes even more the case. You might not have the health and the endurance to work on demanding high-end projects long enough to get really good at those kinds of projects.

Then, there are the social factors. Your other obligations, like raising children, can get in the way, though you might say they are more manageable than intelligence and health.

Growth mindset, beyond the "bloody obvious" [1] interpretation of it, is not something you can state as self-evident, and evidence to support the stronger interpretations is quite scarce.

[1] http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/10/i-will-never-have-the-a...

Re:How to get rich in tech by eatkinson on Thursday December 24, 2015 @12:12PM (#10788799)
> First, there is your biology. You might simply not be intelligent enough to become a great engineer.

Biology is overrated. From "You and Your Research"[1] by R.W. Hamming:

"You observe that most great scientists have tremendous drive. I worked for ten years with John Tukey at Bell Labs. He had tremendous drive. One day about three or four years after I joined, I discovered that John Tukey was slightly younger than I was. John was a genius and I clearly was not. Well I went storming into Bode's office and said, 'How can anybody my age know as much as John Tukey does?' He leaned back in his chair, put his hands behind his head, grinned slightly, and said, 'You would be surprised Hamming, how much you would know if you worked as hard as he did that many years.' I simply slunk out of the office!"

Other anecdotes lead me to believe the primary difference between those that are and those that might have been is hard work.

> You might not have the health and the endurance to work on demanding high-end projects long enough to get really good at those kinds of projects.

Bad health is a rough deal for anyone. But it is possible to succeed in the face of it. Look at Goddard[2]. There's a good argument that he didn't reach his full potential because of his health, but he still did some truly great rocket science.

> Your other obligations, like raising children, can get in the way

Rather than get in the way, I think they are often essential. I imagine it must be hard to do great things if you're personal life isn't in good shape.

There are real obstacles to "greatness", I think. Things like access to education and financial security. But I find it hard to believe that biology, health, and domestic life are enough to stop a dedicated person from performing great feats.

[1]: http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/YouAndYourResearch.html [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_H._Goddard

Re:How to get rich in tech by knughit on Thursday December 24, 2015 @04:48PM (#10789677)
Geniuses have a greater ability to work hard productively and efficiently.
Re:How to get rich in tech by andy_ppp on Thursday December 24, 2015 @07:34AM (#10787964)
If you actually read the grand parent I was talking about an average engineer becoming amazing. It's 100% possible.

You have added a whole load of random obstacles to our average engineer, like making him in poverty, setting him the goal of greatness and suggesting he's sick.

I'd agree that he probably need to find a job that pays better, get well and have smaller goals before he succeeds.

Re:How to get rich in tech by saulrh on Thursday December 24, 2015 @11:57AM (#10788737)
Tell that to a chimpanzee. Then tell that to someone with down's syndrome. Then tell that to someone who was malnourished as a child and whose brain just plain doesn't work as well as yours. It would astound me to find that there were no inter-person variations that significantly affected ability-to-engineer-exceptionally. I'm not going to claim that there are people who fundamentally cannot become exceptional engineers, but I will claim that there exist people who start off so disadvantaged that the life circumstances necessary for them to achieve that goal are so unusual as to never occur - pseudo-illegal nootropics, adopted by best family on earth, elementary school teacher is burned-out tenured physicist, etc.
Re:How to get rich in tech by andy_ppp on Thursday December 24, 2015 @12:00PM (#10788744)
Obviously my comment here missed the mark! I thought we were talking about an average human engineer getting a well paying job at Google?
Re:How to get rich in tech by saulrh on Thursday December 24, 2015 @12:09PM (#10788781)
Sorry! It's possible that I missed some context, yes. I kind of skimmed this thread and fixated on your post because it seemed like it was making a rather extreme claim.

If you're already a good engineer, then it's much more likely that you can become a great engineer. I'm still not convinced that every good engineer can become a great engineer. Maybe most? I know that I have a memory-related lack of attention to detail that I've never been able to get rid of entirely, regardless of adherence to lists and standards and specs and so on. I basically can't maintain an event-driven workflow and it causes problems. I've gotten around it by going into mathematics and programming, which are relatively stateless, but I can easily see myself reaching "good" engineer status but not "great" engineer status.

Re:How to get rich in tech by andy_ppp on Thursday December 24, 2015 @12:40PM (#10788916)
What are the areas you need to focus on to be good? Mine are definitely tests, specifically mocking actual write events happening (or rather stopping them from happening) in an API I have built. It'd be boring if I wasn't learning new things though right?
Re:How to get rich in tech by saulrh on Thursday December 24, 2015 @02:06PM (#10789250)
Testing is an issue, yes. Making sure my tests are comprehensive, making sure my environment is set up in a way that makes the tests valid (that is, that I'm going through the right code paths) and verifying such, remembering where all the appropriate checklists are ("oh, right, that was testing a Y, I need to do checklist t_Y"). I occasionally have to make an extra commit because I forgot to stage a line or a comment. Stuff like that.

I've largely dealt with it by moving into CS theory and AI (which have less of that) and by using Google's reminders system (inbox, now, keep) to deal with the remainder. Just, whenever I have to do engineering, it's always going to be more difficult for me, and since I'm damn good at math there's no real reason for me to focus on engineering beyond the level where the other things I'm doing don't take hits from it. And unless I manage some kind of transformative pivot or redefinition, it'd be pretty stupid for me to focus on being a great engineer, and I'm not sure I'd be able to. I certainly am never going to be as good an engineer as I could be a computer scientist.

Re:How to get rich in tech by ambicapter on Thursday December 24, 2015 @04:35AM (#10787656)
'Nothing'? Well, except a fuckload of experience, probably. Either spend 4 hard years at a top university or 10 years of consistent, hard work doing it all by your lonesome, maybe with and maybe without the benefit of being able to 'practice' at work. I don't think all it take is 'belief'. There is some actual hard work to be done.
Re:How to get rich in tech by mixmastamyk on Thursday December 24, 2015 @03:15PM (#10789455)
Except that startups won't hire you once you get that experience. Look at their team pages, and struggle to find the one person over thirty-five.
Re:How to get rich in tech by collyw on Friday December 25, 2015 @02:20AM (#10790638)
Being born in the right place helps a lot.