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Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by nikcub on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @03:55AM (#10782535)
It really grinds me that he is portrayed by some as an unjust victim of US gov malice and a champion for internet rights issues when he is nothing more than a thief, liar and conman.

It doesn't help that people like Snowden, Greenwald and Assange associated themselves with his cause when they appeared at his election event in Auckland where he promised a bombshell against the government but produced what were likely forged documents.

I'm all for copyright reform, online privacy rights, reform of US judicial overreach, etc. but Kim Dotcom earned $175M by commercializing misappropriated content. There was no cause here as could be argued with the pirate bay or other similar cases. There was also nothing innovative or interesting about what he did. This guy was in it for himself and knew what he was getting himself into and what the consequences could be.

That he cast himself as an internet jesus was to be expected by those who knew him, but that so many bought it up is very unfortunate and damaging to legitimate causes.

Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by norswap on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @04:59AM (#10782699)
That's one way too look at it. The other way is that he made content available when the producers wouldn't. How long do you have to wait to get TV shows in the EU while the US merrily fills the internet with spoiler?

His motivation weren't noble; but as far as thieves go, I'll take Kim Dotcom over the MPAA or the RIAA.

Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by golergka on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @08:24AM (#10783137)
> he made content available when the producers wouldn't

Yeah, that's called theft. The "producers" are the guys (or organizations) that paid their money to have these TV shows shot, you know. If they wanted to, they could sell only one copy of their shows at all, like Wu Tang. Or just show us the trailers, make everyone want them, and never release them, just for the laughs.

Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by coldpie on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @09:04AM (#10783280)
No it isn't. It's called copyright infringement.
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by dragonwriter on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @01:18PM (#10784703)
> Yeah, that's called theft.

Only by loose metaphor; its actually properly called "copyright infringement", which is more analogous to trespass to chattels than to theft, or even conversion (though it obviously differs from either in that copyrights are intangible personal property, and the others deal with tangible personal property.)

Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by norswap on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @12:59PM (#10784569)
That's certainly the legal doctrine. Personally, I don't happen to agree with it.
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by golergka on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @01:13PM (#10784670)
How? I honestly don't understand how a person in the same ethical framework could disagree with this, if he fully understands the situation.
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by wfo on Thursday December 24, 2015 @02:03PM (#10789241)
Here's one way: once you release something publicly enough it becomes part of our culture. You don't own our culture, any part of it, even if you created some of the art in it. Your work lives in a context surrounded by other works you did not create, and could only have been created as a response to them. That's how art works. So while you have some rights to it, you don't have absolute and complete rights to determine what happens to it after release; it belongs primarily to society now, with a respectful nod towards you. People are free to talk about it, watch it, look at it, listen to it, learn from it in ways you never imagined. And you won't get paid for all of them. Welcome to creating art.
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by effie on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @03:09PM (#10785345)
Ethic and morality judgement is very subjective endeavour with inconsistent results across the population. In other words, most people do not exist in "the same ethical framework". The justice framework used by judges is perhaps more consistent, but not necessarily better than other competitive view for any case in hand. Sometimes the very laws are very immoral.
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by evgen on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @08:20AM (#10783130)
Do you want to know how long you should have to wait to get US TV shows in the EU? AS LONG AS THE COPYRIGHT OWNER THINKS YOU SHOULD WAIT. This sort of entitled "I want any content that interests me and I want it for free" attitude is exactly what plays into the hands of those who want to limit copyright reform.
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by kwhitefoot on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @10:39AM (#10783772)
The whole point of copyright is to make the works available. It is explicitly the reason why the creator is given a time limited monopoly.

From Wikipedia:

"... the Statute of Anne is formally titled "An Act for the Encouragement of Learning, by Vesting the Copies of Printed Books in the Authors or Purchasers of Copies, during the Times therein mentioned".[45] The preamble for the Statute indicates the purpose of the legislation - to bring order to the book trade - saying:

    ..., and for the Encouragement of Learned Men to Compose and Write useful Books; May it please Your Majesty, that it may be Enacted... "
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by speeder on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @10:15AM (#10783673)
And people like you have some entitled thinking that you have the right to deny people like me (I am from a third world country that is mostly ignored by copyright owners) the right for culture and education.

I pirated thousands of stuff, and I am proud to say it, because pirating thousands of stuff is how I educated myself, and how I got cultured in things that don't exist in my country, and now allow me to do the amazing stuff that I do (including participate in the international economy, that has more money available than local economy, and earn enough money to sometimes be able to legally buy something, instead of pirating it).

Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by awakeasleep on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @10:50AM (#10783829)
Your situation highlights my philosophical disagreement with Intellectual Property.

I think, when you really analyze the basic motivations behind IP, they come down to 'It's the law of the jungle.' aka "Fuck you, pay me".

There are lots of humane laws that take the exigencies of life into account, but there are also laws that the powerful have created to exploit the less powerful. A legal framework that excludes the poor from sharing the ideas of the powerful or wealthy is not an 'enlightened' law, and therefore I believe anything that can be done to fight it or weaken it's enforcement mechanisms is a mitzvah.

Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by msandford on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @08:31AM (#10783153)
> AS LONG AS THE COPYRIGHT OWNER THINKS YOU SHOULD WAIT

The point of copyright was to ensure that people who made creative works could get paid and earn a living. Not to tie their cultural works up for the rest of their lives, everyone else be damned.

Given that the idea of a "tragedy" has been around for a few thousand years now (the greeks wrote about it a long time ago) how is any creative work created completely in a vacuum? I believe that the answer is that it is not. Many stories have different details but there are probably only a few dozen archetypical stories.

We have the idea of compulsory licensing for a bunch of different things. Why shouldn't movies and TV shows and such also be licensed that way?

Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by deelowe on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @11:42AM (#10784125)
What a perverse view of the world our twisted regulations have created. Patents and copyrights were created explicitly to encourage distribution by providing limited financial incentives (monopoly), not prevent it.
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by Sven7 on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @04:13AM (#10782578)
So just like YouTube.
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by scrollaway on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @04:55AM (#10782691)
Yeah, people do tend to forget that most media consumption startups essentially got bootstrapped with a huge amount of copyright infringement. YouTube, Spotify, ...

The difference is of course that those startups end up making their content legal. But I don't see how what MU did is not okay, but what YouTube and Spotify did is fine.

Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by Oletros on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @07:56AM (#10783058)
> But I don't see how what MU did is not okay, but what YouTube and Spotify did is fine.

What Spotify did?

Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by kuschku on Wednesday December 30, 2015 @09:27AM (#10812138)
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by gcb0 on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @10:04AM (#10783621)
not exactly. the studios and distributors sue everyone, even YouTube. then the one that becomes market leader and gets all the eyeballs usually gets a deal for the lawsuits and the studios have them on a leash for cheaper advertising (remember that a Disney film will spend more on advertising than production over the course of its international release life)
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by hilbertseries on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @05:33AM (#10782774)
MU was paying the people that upload illegal content, specifically because they were uploading illegal content.
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by scrollaway on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @05:46AM (#10782800)
How is that different to having your employees scraping torrent sites for music to add to your library?
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by jamespo on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @07:34AM (#10783010)
who did that?
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by scrollaway on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @09:45AM (#10783520)
Spotify during their early years. This is pretty well known.
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by lmm on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @11:07AM (#10783918)
Citation needed. Are you sure you're not thinking of Grooveshark?
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by scrollaway on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @11:12AM (#10783949)
Sorry, I can't find an actual citation - if you ask any Spotify employee though, it's pretty much an open secret that Spotify's initial collection was scraped from the pirate bay.
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by ewindisch on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @01:30PM (#10784777)
What is public knowledge is that CEO Daniel Ek was the former CEO of uTorrent. He has certainly made millions from online copyright infringement, if only perhaps, less directly than Kim-dot-com.
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by cballard on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @10:54PM (#10787022)
I didn't know uTorrent was a company! I haven't used Windows in forever, so I've been using Transmission for a long time, but I feel like that's the equivalent of foobar2000 being a company or something.
Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by neutronicus on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @11:43AM (#10784129)
I mean YouTube gives content creators a slice of ad revenue, so...

I don't know if this program was implemented before the copyright crackdown, though.

Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by nikcub on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @06:46AM (#10782917)
I actually have an unpublished draft post on my blog titled "Is Megaupload as guilty as YouTube?".

The idea of the post was to compare and contrast the internal YouTube emails[1] that came out as part of Viacom vs YouTube with the internal Megaupload emails[2] [2.5].

The reason why the post remained unpublished is because after reading the relevant indictments and court rulings I found that there were clear distinctions between the cases.

Namely it was that YouTube were grappling with how to deal with the situation and not sure where they stood while Megaupload knew exactly where they were and what they were doing - they were actually assisting users in locating pirated content when support was emailed.

Google also implemented ContentID to help identity content, while in contrast Megaupload placed a cap on the number of takedown requests a content owner could file and internal emails show Kim Dotcom being angry at employees for taking down copyright content that wasn't explicitly cited in an DMCA request. The employees also discussed how they built their filtering system to take down child pornography but not affect copyrighted content.

In the latest appeal court decision in Viacom vs YouTube the judge vacated all counts against YouTube and found that the company had no knowledge of specific infringements of copyrighted works. The judge also found that there was no evidence that YouTube induced its users to upload infringing videos, or "interacted with infringing users to a point where it might be said to have participated in their activity."

MegaUpload did exactly that. Reading the MegaUpload indictment[3] and contrasting it to the appeals court decision[4] in Viacom demonstrates the same with every count or claim (being willful, having knowledge, inducing users, etc.)

[1] http://www.fastcompany.com/1588353/steal-it-and-other-intern...

[2] https://torrentfreak.com/megaupload-what-made-it-a-rogue-sit...

[2.5] http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/1/9436735/megaupload-prosecu...

[3] DOJ vs Megaupload: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/documents/mega...

[4] Viacom vs YouTube district appeals court decision: https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/New_York_Southern_District...

Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by dsp1234 on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @12:57PM (#10784561)
When looking at the emails from both cases, have you taken into account that the adversarial nature of the Viacom vs YouTube vs non-adversarial nature of the emails from the MegaUpload case?

Specifically, emails from the YouTube case are available from both sides (emails that show YouTube in a good light presented by YouTube, and emails that show YouTube in a negative light presented by Viacom), but in the MegaUpload case the only emails are from the indictment (and thus are likely to be hand picked for the purposes of helping secure the indictment).

Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by Sven7 on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @09:27AM (#10783397)
...and there is more pornography, pirated audio and video content on YouTube than there has ever been at any time before.

You can add that to your post to complete it.

Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by logfromblammo on Wednesday December 23, 2015 @04:02PM (#10785625)
A copyright infringer, liar, and conman. In New Zealand.

When I silently wish for the extradition effort to fail, I'm not backing him. I really just want to see a sovereign allied anglophone nation tell the US to see that its jurisdictional claims stop at the 12 NM limit, and to please mind its own business. I don't want to see US playing at world police, except for crimes heinous enough that every nation should be combating them wherever they may occur, like war crimes, terrorism, international financial fraud, and hijackings of international shipping vessels.

Why should Dotcom get so much effort? What risk does he pose to US citizens to justify transporting him out of NZ? Whatever that may be, the risk of allowing the US to assert intellectual property jurisdiction over the whole Internet is far worse.

I'd like Dotcom to eventually get comeuppance, but not in a way that establishes an undesirable precedent.

Re:Kim Dotcom loses extradition case by tdyen on Saturday December 26, 2015 @11:44PM (#10796440)
I concur.