News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by herbig on Saturday December 19, 2015 @11:39AM (#10763996)
I'm a very liberal persion, but I really like Rand Paul. I just wish he didn't think gays were going to burn in hell for all eternity, or at least would stick to libertarian principles on the issue and let people live how they want to live.

The same with abortion laws. I'd be way more into supporting him if he would concede he doesn't agree personally, but that people shouldn't be forced by the government to live according to his religious beliefs.

Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by ekianjo on Saturday December 19, 2015 @12:10PM (#10764105)
> at least would stick to libertarian principles on the issue and let people live how they want to live.

Paul is a libertarian and believes that Government should not be involved in the private space, including marriage. I think that's a very reasonable position to have - and I don't think I have seen him saying anything against gays, but please provide a source if you have any.

Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by cpursley on Saturday December 19, 2015 @12:23PM (#10764140)
Exactly, he (unfortunately) feels like he has to say these types of things to pander to the typical Republican voter. However, he's one of the only people out there talking about the real issue: should government be involved in the marriage business at all? Sure, Paul says some seemingly nutty stuff, but if we judge based on his voting record, he's easily the strongest Republican on personal liberty and right to privacy (not to mention a sane foreign policy).
Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by ubernostrum on Saturday December 19, 2015 @03:47PM (#10764784)
The simple problem is that 99.999999999999999999% of self-professed libertarians I've encountered who simply say "the government should get out of the marriage business" only ever say that. They never lobby for (or introduce, if they're in a position to do so) bills to actually achieve that end, and in fact usually do nothing and let the status quo -- which until very recently was "keep the discriminatory laws on the books" -- stand.

So in extensional terms, such "libertarians" are often indistinguishable from theocrats on key social issues (i.e., regardless of what different set of inner philosophical principles they might claim to be following, the outward result in terms of lawmaking is identical). Which in turn means they're not going to get my vote.

Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by seehafer on Saturday December 19, 2015 @05:27PM (#10765131)
"They never lobby for (or introduce, if they're in a position to do so) bills to actually achieve that end, and in fact usually do nothing and let the status quo -- which until very recently was "keep the discriminatory laws on the books" -- stand."

How many self-professed libertarians are there in the Congress? Paul's not even self-professed libertarian. The only one I know is Justin Amash, and he couldn't introduce any of type of bills you reference because under Boehner's regime only bills blessed by his team could ever make it to the floor.

Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by anjbe on Saturday December 19, 2015 @05:48PM (#10765195)
Very true—what libertarians should do is promote common‐law marriage, which is permitted in 9 states. Unfortunately, over time fewer and fewer states have allowed forming new common‐law marriages. And in those states where it’s still possible, same‐sex common‐law marriage has always been illegal. So “get the government out of the marriage business” still requires active effort to change the laws.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage_in_the_U...

Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by isolate on Saturday December 19, 2015 @05:54PM (#10765215)
Wow, this is terrible, common law is just great for tax and separation ("divorce") purposes regardless of orientation, an excellent way to provide a measure of equality.
Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by spo81rty on Saturday December 19, 2015 @11:50AM (#10764032)
I've always felt that was how Paul believed. He thinks marriage is between a man and a woman but doesn't think the government should be involved in defining it.
Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by Gracana on Saturday December 19, 2015 @12:12PM (#10764108)
In my experience, people with those beliefs (conservative views on marriage && thinks government should not be involved) tend to protect the status quo. It's nice to say that the government shouldn't be involved, but meanwhile it would be really great and really easy if we just allowed same-sex couples to have the same rights. But that's the arbitrary (read: not at all arbitrary) point where "government involvement" becomes too much for them.
Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by flycaliguy on Saturday December 19, 2015 @01:06PM (#10764278)
Always interesting to note that:

"I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage."

is exactly what Obama "believed" in 2008.

Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by agildehaus on Saturday December 19, 2015 @12:12PM (#10764109)
He's open to letting state government define it. I'd say that's something everyone who is for gay rights should be against.
Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by mattlutze on Saturday December 19, 2015 @02:35PM (#10764571)
State governments deciding is what led to federal Supreme Court action.

The states-as-testing-grounds concept has always felt pretty reasonable. Some will make objectively bad choices, but the right choices will eventually will themselves out.

The folks fighting for gay rights had to go state-to-state because there was no traction in federal legislature to get changes made.

Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by insensible on Saturday December 19, 2015 @02:18PM (#10764520)
That's the big-government position. You can be in favor of a particular issue without subscribing to this view.
Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by ubernostrum on Saturday December 19, 2015 @03:49PM (#10764793)
I suppose technically it could be worse -- he could take Ron Paul's position of forcibly exempting the states from having to respect guaranteed basic rights (Ron Paul has campaigned on literally rolling back that part of the Fourteenth Amendment).
Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by Navarr on Saturday December 19, 2015 @12:21PM (#10764134)
I'm fairly sure he is content with the states defining it. I'm not sure I've heard whether or not he'd do anything concerning what the supreme court decided.

Follow up: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/rand-paul-comments-gay...

Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by gcb0 on Saturday December 19, 2015 @01:04PM (#10764269)
every liberal has to draw a line somewhere. he might think aborting is murder, so he puts the same restrictions you (hopefully) put on murder.
Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by joshfraser on Saturday December 19, 2015 @06:22PM (#10765310)
For what it's worth, Paul was one of only 8 Republicans who voted against rescinding funds from Planned Parenthood.
Re:Obama Signs CISA Bill into Law by amyjess on Saturday December 19, 2015 @06:47PM (#10765392)
Paul's views on immigration and refugees are also equally horrendous.

I can't see myself voting in 2016. I find the views of all the Republican and Democratic candidates to be morally repugnant, just for different reasons.

As an LGBT person myself, I refuse to vote for Paul or any other candidate who opposes LGBT rights (including the entire Republican field), and as a Jew, I refuse to vote for any candidate that opposes refugees. However, I also won't vote for the Democrats because their views on other subjects are just as repugnant, including gun control and minimum wage.