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Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by refurb on Thursday December 17, 2015 @12:16PM (#10752717)
Good point. It looks like gun violence is down ~30% since the mid 1990's.

Also, how do they define "gun violence"? Does that include accidental shootings? Suicides? From what I remember, suicides account for almost half of all deaths due to guns.

Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by blang on Thursday December 17, 2015 @12:24PM (#10752783)
According to the article it includes accidents, homicides and suicides. I have also heard a figure of 50-70% of all gun deaths are suicides.

The argument of the article is that consistent government regulation has helped curve motor vehicle deaths downwards and that consistent gun regulation might be able to do the same.

Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by thoth on Thursday December 17, 2015 @12:22PM (#10752762)
>From what I remember, suicides account for almost half of all deaths due to guns.

The article says "Today, suicides account for roughly two out of every three gun deaths."

Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by ocdtrekkie on Thursday December 17, 2015 @12:26PM (#10752805)
"Due to guns?" Do guns make people suicidal?
Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by Retric on Thursday December 17, 2015 @12:28PM (#10752825)
It lowers the bar before people succeed. Take some pills and many back out, pull a trigger and your generally out of options.
Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by pdkl95 on Thursday December 17, 2015 @01:49PM (#10753487)
Freedom, by definition, includes the freedom to be stupid[1]. This is kind of the point of having a free society; the people that do helpful things that you approve of don't need to have their activities protected by law and constitution. It's the people that do things you don't approve of that need those protections.

To test if people are actually free, you study how the unpopular people and unwelcome ideas are handled. If they are restricted "for their own good", then any claim of being "free" are jut marketing.

The solution is better education and more communication (and better healthcare, including a lot more funding/availability for mental health services). Going after guns doesn't address the actual problem.

Oh, and "take some pills"? That really depends. You may survive, but hours of hypoxia from an overdose of respiratory depressants can be incredibly damaging, especially to the brain. If the overdose wasn't strong enough to cause that kind of damage, it may not even be a fatal dose. There is going to be a lot of variation, and "backing out" only apples some of the time.

[1] As someone who strongly supports the right to die, suicide is a complicated subject, and is not "stupid" in some cases. However, for the purposes of this thread, that is really off-topic. The "stupid" subset certainly exists and they would be the people who would benefit form the "backing out" you mention.

Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by Retric on Thursday December 17, 2015 @02:18PM (#10753718)
This seems like the 'one true way' fallacy. If doing Y is vastly more expensive and harder to pull off and nobody is trying to do Y, then it's not an excuse to avoid doing X which is a vastly cheaper partial solution.

When you include external costs guns are massively subsidized. EX: Homeowners insurance generally does not ask about gun ownership even if it increases risks.

PS: The 18th may have allowed the sale of beer, but that does not mean the government can't discourage use though taxation.

Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by SteveLAnderson on Thursday December 17, 2015 @12:38PM (#10752898)
Exactly. When Australia changed their gun laws, the suicide rate went down by 65%.
Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by refurb on Thursday December 17, 2015 @01:04PM (#10753101)
Yet Japan has one of the highest suicide rates and almost no gun ownership!

Also, prior to enacting gun control, Australia's non-firearm suicide rate doubled (1980-1996) while firearm suicide was cut in half.

Not sure there is any correlation.

Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by SteveLAnderson on Thursday December 17, 2015 @01:18PM (#10753212)
You may not be sure, but the researchers that study this subject are sure - http://andrewleigh.org/pdf/GunBuyback_Panel.pdf

And for the US - http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2013/1...

Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by refurb on Thursday December 17, 2015 @01:42PM (#10753417)
It's not just me, it's other researchers as well.[1]

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Australia#Measurin...

"The results of these tests suggest that the NFA did not have any large effects on reducing firearm homicide or suicide rates."[61]"

"The implemented restrictions may not be responsible for the observed reductions in firearms suicide. Data suggest that a change in social and cultural attitudes could have contributed to the shift in method preference.[60]"

I wouldn't assume that it's settled.

Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by SteveLAnderson on Thursday December 17, 2015 @03:41PM (#10754372)
The paper I linked to discussed both of those papers and corrects errors made in them.
Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by refurb on Thursday December 17, 2015 @07:58PM (#10755891)
Care to point it out?

The table I'm looking at says firearm suicides dropped by 50% prior to the gun buyback.

I'd argue the decrease in overall suicides is a general trend happened to coincide with the gun buyback.

Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by ocdtrekkie on Thursday December 17, 2015 @12:32PM (#10752847)
Even if you take that to be true (I gather there's plenty of ways to quickly off yourself at any given hardware store), does that make the guns "responsible" for those deaths? Are those deaths "due" to guns? Or are we using our political biases to slant something to meet our agenda, like this article, which shows gun violence isn't really increasing at all.
Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by imtringued on Thursday December 17, 2015 @12:38PM (#10752900)
There's quite a difference between "guns make people suicidal" and "guns enable impulsive suicide"
Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by Retric on Thursday December 17, 2015 @12:22PM (#10752761)
Let's drop things down and say there is only ~500 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm per year in the US. That seems reason enough to discourage gun ownership.
Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by rbcgerard on Thursday December 17, 2015 @12:38PM (#10752906)
By that logic we should get rid of swimming pools...http://www.poolsafely.gov/drowning-deaths-injuries/

Probably ladders as well...

Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by Zancarius on Thursday December 17, 2015 @03:03PM (#10754095)
Don't forget buckets! Those have resulted in more than a few drowning deaths over the years.

You've reminded me: The CPSC introduced stop-sale regulation on magnets (remember Buckyballs?) for even fewer deaths than that, and where most of the non-fatal injuries were the result of poor decisions by adolescents. Worse, in my opinion, the relatively small number of deaths that occurred were almost all traceable to irresponsible adults leaving magnets in places where toddlers could pick them up and swallow them.

That's still a sore point for me.

Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by Retric on Thursday December 17, 2015 @02:25PM (#10753762)
Don't put words in my mouth, discourage != get rid.

Mandating they all be panted in iridescent reflective coatings would discourage ownership, but not actual use.

PS: Ladders are covered in safety warnings (which may be ridiculous). Guns, not so much.

Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by mbeattie on Thursday December 17, 2015 @12:36PM (#10752880)
Lets drop things down and say there is only ~500* deaths due to accidental drowning per year in the US. That seems reason enough to discourage pool ownership.

*=http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/wa... There are closer to 3,500 accidental drownings per year.

Re:Guns are now killing as many people as cars in the U.S by Retric on Thursday December 17, 2015 @02:06PM (#10753630)
Your joking, but I actually agree with this. I also almost drowned at my parents pool while really young (under 3).

Note, discourage != prohibit. Regular PSA's about the dangers of pool ownership higher taxes, and or required fencing could all save lives.