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Re:A letter to our daughter by austenallred on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @04:42PM (#10659030)
I mean, what else are you going to do with $45 Billion? Build a really big house?

I've had the opportunity to rub shoulders with a few billionaires over the past few weeks, and it's remarkable how differently they think about money than the people who don't have it. Sure, they may buy a nice car (or jet), but after a certain level the only thing you can do with that kind of money is plug it back into something meaningful.

Hats off to Zuck and the other people who try to turn their success into something even greater than, well, their success.

Re:A letter to our daughter by AndrewKemendo on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @04:51PM (#10659108)
>I mean, what else are you going to do with $45 Billion?

You are thinking about it the wrong way. You don't spend $45B on stuff for yourself. You spend $45B on changing the way governments and populations live work and how power is balanced.

When Bud Fox asked Gordon Gekko "How much is enough" Gekko knew immediately that Fox wasn't in the same league. Money isn't about stuff, it's about power and influence.

Re:A letter to our daughter by sytelus on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @06:55PM (#10659852)
I strongly feel this power, influence, giant houses, jets, personal cruise ships etc are old generation stuff - something that grey haired Gekko will personify. The "new rich" is dramatically different and for the better. Today's centi-millionairs wants to stay anonymous, don't want to have butlers, have houses that they can manage without permanent staff and often prefers travelling first class or renting Yatch instead of buying them even if they can afford it. The new rich sets target to make X amount of money and then "retire". Their "retirement" consist of working hard doing their favorite activities and travelling the globe to sample the "regular folks" flavors. Most of them don't have desire to keep growing billion dollar business which will sip away their time and energy. They have strong political belief but have no desire for acquiring political power directly or indirectly. They are not in to heavily influencing how rest of the population shall live. They consider time to do their favorite activities far more important than keeping money scoreboard. They want to buy fashionable cloths and accessories but not those that will immediately attract attention and single them out in the crowd. They want to be physically fit and avoid having family as long as possible. They like to invest in ideas and technology more than traditional financial instruments.

I think new rich crowd will almost completely replace old generation wealthy in next 50 years or so. People who are born in this decade will have very hard time understanding philosophies and life style choices of Gorden Gekko.

Re:A letter to our daughter by AndrewKemendo on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @08:20PM (#10660217)
Hate to break it to you but what you described about the "new" millionaires is the majority of all multimillionaires, regardless of generation.

See: The Millionaire next door

Re:A letter to our daughter by majani on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @12:11AM (#10661118)
I accidentally downvoted you due to fat finger error, sorry.
Re:A letter to our daughter by AndrewKemendo on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @09:22AM (#10663044)
Well I'm crushed, but hopefully I can get over it ;)
Re:A letter to our daughter by kamaal on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @01:09PM (#10664655)
I hope most people understood this. In fact bulk of the worlds rich is invisible, they become rich through mundane savings and investment methods everybody else avoids.

World is a strange place. Very few millionaires win and lose spectacularly. Nearly all of rich people out there are silent and invisible.

Re:A letter to our daughter by beccasanchez on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @07:22PM (#10659969)
These people you're describing are no different than the old aristocracy. Aristocrats have always attempted to live a comfortable, quiet life of idle pleasures. A Rockefeller or Ford figure that works really hard is the exception--and they are a very American invention who were raised with the protestant work ethic.
Re:A letter to our daughter by bambax on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @04:28AM (#10661887)
> Today's centi-millionairs wants to stay anonymous, don't want to have butlers

Peter Thiel, the godfather of "today's centi-millionaires", has a butler.

— At least he had one in 2007:

http://fortune.com/2007/11/13/paypal-mafia/

Re:A letter to our daughter by saiya-jin on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @04:07AM (#10661821)
you're idolizing new rich a bit too much. yes there are people like you describe, but that's nothing new with this generation. then there is remaining majority, which is a mix of it all, including the worst "offenders".

just because via social media you see more of the "new rich", which have desire to make public statements and be as visible as possible, doesn't mean that's all there is.

Re:A letter to our daughter by slg on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @05:21PM (#10659327)
>You spend $45B on changing the way governments and populations live work and how power is balanced.

$45B is even overkill for that. Each presidential candidate spent (or had spent on their behalf) roughly $1B in 2012. Zuckerberg therefore could have doubled a candidates spending for each presidential election for the rest of his life and still have half his fortune. $45B is that huge.

EDIT: The multiple downvotes seem to indicate I said something that is disagreeable. I'm not implying that buying elections would be a better use of Zuckerberg's money, just that he has so much money that elections are just more "stuff" he could buy without even thinking hard about it.

Re:A letter to our daughter by AndrewKemendo on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @05:34PM (#10659399)
The Koch brothers have a combined $100BN and they still haven't gotten the influence that they want. So yes, $45B is a shitload, but practically once you spread it out to where you need it to be to make the world look like you want it to, it still only makes a dent.
Re:A letter to our daughter by slg on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @05:49PM (#10659500)
The Koch brothers are the most influential political backers in the country and they spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $200M per election cycle. They are the closest someone has come to trying to buy an election, but even their donations are still only rounding errors in comparison to their overall fortune. Politics is a relatively cheap game for someone with tens of billions of dollars.
Re:A letter to our daughter by brbsix on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @06:12PM (#10659629)
It is a cheap game for someone with millions of dollars even. ROI on these sort of political contributions can be absolutely insane. Apparently corporations on average receive ~$760 for every $1 spent influencing politics. Depending on the industry, ROI is anywhere from 5,000 to 77,000 percent.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-16/words-greatest-inve...

Re:A letter to our daughter by lmm on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @04:36AM (#10661913)
Zerohedge is... rarely aligned with reality. Do you have a reliable source?
Re:A letter to our daughter by mseebach on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @07:07AM (#10662443)
> Depending on the industry, ROI is anywhere from 5,000 to 77,000 percent.

That is clearly not true. If that sort of ROI existed in anywhere near the general case, a lot more people and companies would spend a lot more money on it, and they don't. Perhaps there exists lobbying opportunities with these kinds of ROIs, but they are limited, and there definitely isn't a 5,000% floor on it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/05/04/am...

I think the problem with the zerohedge article (and the report it summarises) is that, first, they seem to assume that all corporate welfare benefits the businesses doing the lobbying locally (not to businesses in general, which is probably more the case -- Ford lobbying against foreign competition will help Chevrolet equally, regardless of how much either firm spends on lobbying), and second, that corporate welfare only exists because of lobbying: Politicians still need to get elected, and creating industry, jobs and high-profile ribbon-cutting opportunities in their districts (regardless of whether businesses lobby them for it or not) is likely to remain a popular tactic in the absence of lobbying.

Re:A letter to our daughter by sukulaku on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @08:00AM (#10662649)
I'm not sure if you meant it that way, but for the record: politicians don't create jobs - entrepreneurs do.

The best thing politicians can do for the common good, is to get the hell out of the way and let productive people be productive.

Re:A letter to our daughter by mseebach on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @08:35AM (#10662815)
I agree fully with you -- I was trying to frame the comment inside the political calculus, in which actors can certainly redirect public funds in such away that it appears new jobs are created in their districts, even if it's often zero or negative sum for the economy at large.
Re:A letter to our daughter by cwe on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @04:56PM (#10659153)
Which is exactly the type of stuff Zuck is talking about here, although in less power-hungry ways. So you're kind of proving @austenallred's point.
Re:A letter to our daughter by toomuchtodo on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @05:13PM (#10659285)
I think Zuck is still power hungry, he's just more veiled about it. Everyone with enough power (through money) wants to shape the world in their specific ideal.
Re:A letter to our daughter by Chathamization on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @08:02PM (#10660143)
Agreed. The fact that they're having a big press release about all the awesome stuff they're going to be doing before they've done any of it, heck before they're even ready to say what they're actually going to be doing, is telling. As is naming their initiative after their daughter.

It's nice when vanity projects end up helping the masses (and we'll have to wait and see how successful it is at that). However, we shouldn't act like this very public display of wealth (again, before anything is even done) has motives that are so different from, say, giant statues of oneself or giant mausoleums.

Re:A letter to our daughter by lifeformed on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @03:48AM (#10661768)
How is any of that stuff bad, though? Seems like a good trade. You put $45B into improving the world, we'll sing your praises.

What's the difference between it being all done in vanity and it being all done in goodwill? It's literally the same thing to the rest of the world, the only difference is some internal chemical state in his brain.

Re:A letter to our daughter by psykovsky on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @09:54AM (#10663248)
Except he still didn't do a thing besides putting out a press-release. Do you think his real intentions will not shape the way he acts in the future? How can you say it is a good trade when no trade happened yet?
Re:A letter to our daughter by lifeformed on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @12:34PM (#10664404)
You think he's going to just put a press release out and not actually do it?
Re:A letter to our daughter by psykovsky on Thursday December 03, 2015 @04:25AM (#10668676)
I still remember what Internet.org was supposed to be and what it turned out to be. The man is an egocentric liar.
Re:A letter to our daughter by ArkyBeagle on Thursday December 03, 2015 @12:35AM (#10667950)
We've become too cynical and rent-seek-ey. Many people realize that a large wad of money was Nature's way of telling them to keep doing what they're doing.

Instead, it has to be "charity" now. Very few rich people ever did charity well.

Re:A letter to our daughter by chc on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @05:23PM (#10659343)
If we define "power-hungry" so broadly that it encompasses merely wanting to make the world a better place, I'm not sure what use the term is anymore.
Re:A letter to our daughter by bigbugbag on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @08:54PM (#10660360)
I sincerely doubt Zucker wants to make the world a better place, else why would he be doing the opposite while making billions out of it ?

Usually a billionaire giving his fortune away does it out of vanity, out of guilt, for the tax breaks, out of conviction that their success in business makes them equally expert in solving the world’s problems or last but not least as “legacy” as explained by John Caudwell: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/mar/07/new-philanthr...

Re:A letter to our daughter by Veedrac on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @03:35AM (#10661715)
I sincerely doubt he thinks he has been doing the opposite.
Re:A letter to our daughter by reddytowns on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @04:46AM (#10661938)
What is so awful about Facebook? I mean it's hardly an original idea, and if Facebook never existed, I'm sure that Myspace or Friendster or some hereto unknown company would have taken its place.

It's like hating Ford because they make cars, while ignoring all other automobile companies.

Re:A letter to our daughter by DanBC on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @04:50AM (#10661964)
Yur analogy makes more sense if Ford make cars that contain cameras and microphones and they monitor everything you say and do and where you go and they send all that information back to the mothership.

And they want to build cars for all poor people, but those cars can only travel to certain destinations on certain roads, but Ford making and providing these cars means other organisations who sell bicycles or mopeds or small cars (which provide a lot more freedom) are hampered.

Re:A letter to our daughter by toomuchtodo on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @05:48PM (#10659489)
The problem is "better" is subjective, and its probably preferred that the majority of people determine what better is instead of the small minority of people with billions of dollars.

I like the future Bill Gates and Elon Musk want to bring. I do not like the future the Koch Brother's envision.

Re:A letter to our daughter by ArkyBeagle on Thursday December 03, 2015 @12:40AM (#10667969)
First you'll get the one, then the other. Elon Musk and Gates are hardcore egotists. Charles Koch was just trying to live up to his father's expectations. He's stated that his guiding principle is economic consumer surplus.

I won't excuse the whole "killer instinct" thing they all have in common. It's just how humans sometimes work.

Don't get me wrong - Koch et al is a weird company but there's room for that, too. W.R.T energy I hope you're right but it moves slowly.

Re:A letter to our daughter by jsnathan on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @01:39AM (#10661377)
But would you be in the majority with that? :)
Re:A letter to our daughter by toomuchtodo on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @05:09PM (#10666225)
Yes, I'm part of the 7.3 billion people who are not billionaires.
Re:A letter to our daughter by jsnathan on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @06:12PM (#10666587)
Sorry I was referring to the second part of your comment.

Even if you happen to be in majority with your progressive views, in this instance, there is no guarantee for that generally, especially if we consider the entire global populace.. is what I was trying to point out.

Re:A letter to our daughter by toomuchtodo on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @06:16PM (#10666603)
I'd argue 7 billion people can find common ground on what you'd consider "quality of life" for everyone.
Re:A letter to our daughter by jsnathan on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @10:22PM (#10667528)
That seems counterfactual to me, but that's just my opinion.
Re:A letter to our daughter by AndrewKemendo on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @05:21PM (#10659328)
I'd go one better:

"Everyone ... wants to shape the world in their specific ideal."

Most people give up on this idea in their mid-20s though or never really believe that they can.

Re:A letter to our daughter by circlefavshape on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @05:13AM (#10662044)
That's because most people actually can't.
Re:A letter to our daughter by ArkyBeagle on Thursday December 03, 2015 @12:33AM (#10667947)
I see more and more that hubris is apparently a deprecated concept.
Re:A letter to our daughter by AndrewKemendo on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @05:20PM (#10659318)
although in less power-hungry ways

Yes, well that's 100% the distinction.

The OP seems to think that the obvious choice is for money to "go to something meaningful" without specifying what "meaningful" actually is. Within this context, that would seem to mean the "meaningful" thing is "greater -good" charity. My point is that more frequently, this type of money go toward direct influence of power like setting up Super PACs, hosting power networks like Sun Valley Conference, establishing think tanks, grants to universities for certain research etc...

Re:A letter to our daughter by Cookingboy on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @05:09PM (#10659256)
Exactly, when you have that much wealth, you buy things that don't have price tags on.
Re:A letter to our daughter by ArkyBeagle on Thursday December 03, 2015 @12:31AM (#10667939)
Nah. It's about ego(tism). Power & influence use different currency. You have to either - 1) not know or 2) not care - how badly you'll mess this up.

And you will.

Re:A letter to our daughter by ams6110 on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @11:16PM (#10660907)
$45B is not enough to change governments. That's about 4 days worth of US federal spending.
Re:A letter to our daughter by wheels on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @01:59AM (#10661438)
It's more than the annual budgets of about 2/3rds of the world's countries, including places like Croatia, or the Philippines. I'd call that politically significant.
Re:A letter to our daughter by HaloZero on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @11:25PM (#10660948)
Yeah but it's more than enough to bribe the hell out of a lot of senators.
Re:A letter to our daughter by kamaal on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @01:16PM (#10664714)
ISRO spent a mere $73 million to go to mars. Big and small are perspectives between what one can do and what one can't.
Re:A letter to our daughter by vinceguidry on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @04:52PM (#10659115)
Spending money meaningfully is hard work. John D. Rockefeller had such a hard time with it that after awhile he just left it up to his son, who devoted his life to philanthropy.

At the Cleveland church he went to, significant portions of his time spent there was to write checks to parishioners.

I'd say it takes roughly the same amount of effort to spend money as it does to make it. You still need an organization, you still need to make really hard decisions day in and day out. It seems that there's something fundamental about philanthropy that doesn't scale.

Personally, I think the work a person does to earn that kind of money, assuming of course it's from legitimate commercial activity, is plenty enough, one shouldn't feel morally compelled to donate it back. But like you said, what else are you going to do with it? Doesn't make a lot of sense anymore to leave billions to heirs.

Re:A letter to our daughter by visakanv on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @03:13AM (#10661644)
Relevant bit from Playboy's interview with Steve Jobs:

> Playboy: What does the money actually mean to you?

> Jobs: I still don’t understand it. It’s a large responsibility to have more than you can spend in your lifetime—and I feel I have to spend it. If you die, you certainly don’t want to leave a large amount to your children. It will just ruin their lives. And if you die without kids, it will all go to the Government. Almost everyone would think that he could invest the money back into humanity in a much more astute way than the Government could. The challenges are to figure out how to live with it and to reinvest it back into the world, which means either giving it away or using it to express your concerns or values.

> Playboy: So what do you do?

> Jobs: That’s a part of my life that I like to keep private. When I have some time, I’m going to start a public foundation. I do some things privately now.

> Playboy: You could spend all of your time disbursing your money.

> Jobs: Oh, you have to. I’m convinced that to give away a dollar effectively is harder than to make a dollar.

Re:A letter to our daughter by saiya-jin on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @04:18AM (#10661848)
honest question - how did that went? I mean donation & public foundation part
Re:A letter to our daughter by MagnumOpus on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @05:06PM (#10666209)
In typical Jobsian fashion. He talked a good game, but decided to do the opposite. Put his wealth into a living trust to shield it from taxes and publicity and left it to benefit his wife and children.
Re:A letter to our daughter by austenallred on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @06:03AM (#10662246)
He died before it happened.
Re:A letter to our daughter by lloyddobbler on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @05:18PM (#10659308)
> Personally, I think the work a person does to earn that kind of money, assuming of course it's from legitimate commercial activity, is plenty enough, one shouldn't feel morally compelled to donate it back.

Agreed. And not to get too political, but I'm thankful that individuals in the U.S. are exceptionally generous, and do think about these things. And that those who DO earn copious amounts of money have the choice of what to donate it to - rather than having 90% of it confiscated and doled out by someone else who didn't earn it.

Re:A letter to our daughter by kamaal on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @01:18PM (#10664722)
>>It seems that there's something fundamental about philanthropy that doesn't scale.

There is.

You don't give people fish to eat, you teach them how to fish.

Re:A letter to our daughter by vinceguidry on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @01:27PM (#10664793)
John D. Rockefeller started the University of Chicago. Much of his time had to be spent convincing his trustees that they had to spend time soliciting funds from other donors than him. They tended to get slothful and spendthrift otherwise.

Teaching isn't presently scalable. You can look to the failures of our public school system for evidence. One might be tempted to look to other countries for systems that work better, but there has to be a political path forward for implementing those systems here.

One good teacher can only teach so many. That good teacher may not be good at teaching teachers. Teaching is not warfare, where good soldiers can teach other people to teach soldiers.

Teachers that are good at teaching teachers can only teach so many teachers. Any attempt to scale a working method will eventually run out of talent. And if you don't stop when you run out of talent, then the quality of your teaching will inevitably go down. Universities can only get so big.

Billionaires who want to put their wealth towards education are pretty limited in their options.

Re:A letter to our daughter by equalarrow on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @05:47PM (#10659487)
> I've had the opportunity to rub shoulders with a few billionaires over the past few weeks, and it's remarkable how differently they think about money than the people who don't have it.

Yah, I don't necessarily disagree with their mindset. I've crossed a lot of spectrums, including chilling and rubbing shoulders with the rich to scraping by. I definitely do agree with a lot of the lofty 'moon shots' and some of these people have achieved remarkable things not just for themselves, but for society as well.

But, with Zuck, I just don't know. Gates got rich off operating systems and crushing opponents at all costs (a success story for capitalism). Zuck, from advertising and selling 'your' data. It's admirable that he's giving 99% away, but, I just don't get a warm fuzzy feeling about it.

Time will tell and I hope it turns out good.

Re:A letter to our daughter by austenallred on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @09:48PM (#10660575)
> Zuck, from advertising and selling 'your' data

IMO that's a really narrow-minded read of what Facebook is. >1B people log into products he founded every day. He lets advertisers target you using data you've provided, as you sit on the platform he helped build, but I'm not convinced that makes him an evil dude.

Re:A letter to our daughter by tjl on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @12:33AM (#10661193)
My problem is him collecting data on people who aren't even using the service. They collect data on any site with a Facebook button. I don't even use the service and he has my data. I'm not getting any value from his product, so what right does he have to my data?
Re:A letter to our daughter by saiya-jin on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @04:22AM (#10661868)
well, I don't think there are many FB users who would like that to be done to them either, I know I am not.

FB might not be some evil company, but they are definitely not nice guys.

Re:A letter to our daughter by joering2 on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @04:23AM (#10661875)
"Dude they just give me their info. Yeah... Dumb suckers!"

Okay perhaps he was young and naive. But is Facebook naive now in Belgium where they want to track people outside of facebook "for their own safety"?

This is EVIL!!

Re:A letter to our daughter by yongjik on Tuesday December 01, 2015 @06:05PM (#10659589)
...Meanwhile, Samsung's owner Lee Kun-Hee is still officially alive (even though nobody has seen him in months after he had a heart attack), because the company still hasn't tied up all the loose ends for transferring the company's ownership to Lee's son while paying as little tax as possible.

So, yes, you can do a lot worse (to your society) with $$billions.

(Sorry for the rant. Please carry on.)

Re:A letter to our daughter by morgante on Wednesday December 02, 2015 @04:16AM (#10661844)
> I mean, what else are you going to do with $45 Billion? Build a really big house?

Leave it to your children so you can perpetuate hereditary wealth on a grand scale. Because your great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandchildren should never have to work, right?