Re:Are Domestic and Wild Salmon Still the Same Species?
by mooreds on Friday November 27, 2015 @07:40AM
(#10637017)
Sure, the title was clickbait. But the concepts in the article are worth talking about: the rapid evolutionary changes to salmon, the first domestication of a carnivorous fish, what it means that fewer and fewer wild animals will be able to escape human impact.
Re:Are Domestic and Wild Salmon Still the Same Species?
by mamon on Friday November 27, 2015 @09:17AM
(#10637374)
There is a very simple scientific test whether or not two animals are the same species: if they can breed and have fertile offspring they are the same species, otherwise they are not. All the discussions about whether or not they are physically similar to each other are pointless.
Re:Are Domestic and Wild Salmon Still the Same Species?
by Angostura on Friday November 27, 2015 @09:57AM
(#10637538)
Unfortunately, it is hugely over simplistic. Using it you can conclude that blackberries and raspberries are the same species and that lions and tigers are kinda-sorta the same species, since it has been possible to get Ligers to successfully mate with their parent species.
So regarding its characterisation as "a very simple scientific test" - no, it isn't.
Re:Are Domestic and Wild Salmon Still the Same Species?
by Turing_Machine on Friday November 27, 2015 @01:37PM
(#10638309)
There are even not-uncommon situations where Population A can breed with Population B, and Population B can breed with Population C, but Population A and Population C can't interbreed.
Using "can breed" as the metric for "same species" creates the situation where A and B are the same species, and B and C are the same species, but A and C are not. That's clearly contrary to what most people have in mind when they use the word "species".
Species really should be a continuum rather than a binary.
Re:Are Domestic and Wild Salmon Still the Same Species?
by Turing_Machine on Friday November 27, 2015 @01:40PM
(#10638329)
Yeah, all of those can interbreed, more or less. On the other side of the coin, consider dogs alone. Successful breeding between Great Danes and Chihuahuas is quite rare. :-)
The "successful breeding" metric isn't very satisfactory on any level
Re:Are Domestic and Wild Salmon Still the Same Species?
by littletimmy on Friday November 27, 2015 @08:27AM
(#10637191)
No, it is genetic modification.
Think of it as beauty modification. Breed good looking man, with good looking woman, you select for a good looking child. On the other hand, take an ugly child put it under a knife and through plastic surgery you modify for a beautiful child. That's the difference between genetic modification and genetic selection. Genetic selection has a long history, genetic modification does not.
I suspect if you put some farm salmon back into the wild, they would, some generations later, end up reverting back to thier wild state.
So regarding its characterisation as "a very simple scientific test" - no, it isn't.
Using "can breed" as the metric for "same species" creates the situation where A and B are the same species, and B and C are the same species, but A and C are not. That's clearly contrary to what most people have in mind when they use the word "species".
Species really should be a continuum rather than a binary.
The "successful breeding" metric isn't very satisfactory on any level
See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species_problem .
It's not "genetic modification", it's "genetic selection", and that's what humanity has done for all domestics species since the beginning of times.
Think of it as beauty modification. Breed good looking man, with good looking woman, you select for a good looking child. On the other hand, take an ugly child put it under a knife and through plastic surgery you modify for a beautiful child. That's the difference between genetic modification and genetic selection. Genetic selection has a long history, genetic modification does not.