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Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by chatmasta on Friday November 20, 2015 @07:09PM (#10604747)
The NSA conversation is tiring. The NSA is a powerful agency with billions of unaccounted dollars. It will do what it wants. Why discuss its motives?

Perhaps we could better spend our time ensuring we trust our fellow Americans enough that they would not allow a cancerous facism to spread throughout the "shadow government" of the executive branch. In other words, trust they will look out for our best interests and will resist any movement to establish a tyrannical government.

Why can't we just trust the NSA?

Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by syoc on Friday November 20, 2015 @07:28PM (#10604825)
Why can't we just give up several rights and insanely powering information to NSA and blindly hope that they will do "the right thing" with it with no transparency? I really hope this is a minority opinion. I would also like to remind people that a lot of services are hosted in the USA and the world at large is also affected by this... The rest of the world should definitely not "just trust" the NSA.
Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by hueving on Friday November 20, 2015 @07:17PM (#10604785)
>that they would not allow a cancerous facism to spread

The reason the rest of the government has a system of checks and balances is because humans can't be trusted to not get out of control when it comes to power. The NSA has none of this so they will keep expanding their power as much as they can.

Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by AngrySkillzz on Friday November 20, 2015 @07:21PM (#10604797)
Because we can't trust our fellow Americans that much. You can plainly observe the current anti-Muslim, anti-refugee rhetoric and make that assessment yourself. You remembered what public discourse was like right after 9/11. The NSA's dragnet surveillance would be of great help in, say, Donald Trump's recommendation to make a database of all US Muslims.
Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by robotkilla on Saturday November 21, 2015 @01:32AM (#10605926)
It does seem like his anti-illegal alien rhetoric could easily be shifted to Muslims. Either way shenanigans do seem to be afoot with that whole thing. I feel like I'm living in a cartoon these days.
Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by chatmasta on Friday November 20, 2015 @07:45PM (#10604889)
Maybe potential applicants to the NSA should be required to have a "trust score" above a certain threshold, according to a certain algorithm, democratically programmed by the People.
Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by zero_intp on Saturday November 21, 2015 @07:26AM (#10606620)
and diligently applied by a contractor
Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by warkdarrior on Friday November 20, 2015 @07:12PM (#10604764)
We can just trust the NSA because they have shown themselves to be untrusthworthy. They already used information on innocent people for personal purposes.
Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by rhino369 on Friday November 20, 2015 @08:20PM (#10605014)
One huge peice of evidence that we can actually trust the government is that the Bush era DOJ threw a fit when the workers thought Bush's NSA went to far. Then we had a national debate about it.

Plus even if you didn't trust the government not to go fascist they could recreate a NSA within a few months anyway.

Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by rayiner on Friday November 20, 2015 @08:52PM (#10605123)
They wouldn't even need that. They'd roll tanks down to Google/Facebook HQ and have recreated it within 30 minutes. That's the absurdity of the commercial/government dichotomy approach to privacy: any government that would routinely use surveillance information against ordinary people would have no problem raiding the offices of internet/telecom companies who have all that data anyway.
Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by kotajacob on Friday November 20, 2015 @07:11PM (#10604757)
The main reason people have a hard time trusting them is because they aren't always completely honest with us... which isn't a great way to get trust from your citizens.
Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by chatmasta on Friday November 20, 2015 @07:36PM (#10604854)
If the NSA publicized all its internal decision making processes, it would interfere with its own job.

Should any American citizen expect detailed documentation on the intelligence apparatus operating within the NSA? Wouldn't such disclosure jeopardize ongoing operations? The NSA has no obligation to reveal anything more about its operations than federal law requires it to. The legislative branch has the responsibility of enforcing any requirements placed upon the NSA.

The legislative branch is responsible for checking the power of the executive branch, which includes the NSA. That is why congress regulates its operations, and enforces the regulations with specialized committees.

Unfortunately, even if congress can tightly regulate the NSA, it cannot publicly enforce its regulations. Public enforcement would jeopardize ongoing operations within the NSA. If Congress limited its regulations to only those that it could publicly enforce, then it would restrict the scope of the regulations, making it impossible to properly check the power of the NSA.

Given the catch-22 of asking congress to regulate the NSA, but in a publicly provable manner, we are left with two choices: sacrifice the intelligence apparatus altogether, or continue funding it while trusting the regulatory power of congress.

Ultimately the power of the NSA depends on the power of its overseers on the intelligence committee. A powerful group of senators and congressmen could enforce regulations on the NSA.

The challenge is finding trustworthy congressmen, who are capable of regulating the NSA. Americans should really stop worrying about the behavior of the NSA, and start worrying about electing the right congressmen to ensure the NSA is operating for the best interest of the American people.

Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by admax88q on Friday November 20, 2015 @10:19PM (#10605390)
> The NSA has no obligation to reveal anything more about its operations than federal law requires it to.

You're starting from the assumption that current federal laws are moral and just.

It's a tautology to say "they are [legally] obligated to do what they're legally obligated to do" No one would disagree with you on that. The point of the discussion and debate is about what they _should_ be legally obligated to do.

Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by spacab on Friday November 20, 2015 @08:01PM (#10604955)
The problem is that since the dawn of our Republic when our current system of checks and balances was put into place, the intelligence apparatus has grown much larger and more powerful than I think anybody really could have ever expected. And because of their secrecy and vagueness, it has become impossible to actually get a sense of the real benefit of our intelligence operation.

If it's a choice between the unknown benefit/cost of compromising the NSA's operations (through greater transparency) and the current situation (our civil liberties being threatened more and more every day), I would choose the former.

The system of accountability is completely outdated and unbalanced in favor of the intelligence apparatus.

Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by rhizome on Friday November 20, 2015 @09:40PM (#10605288)
If the NSA publicized all its internal decision making processes, it would interfere with its own job.

Should any...

sacrifice...altogether

and so on...

False Dilemmas across the board, utterly without nuance. Sprinkle in some, "Welp, that's the law!" nihilism (or complicity) to taste.

Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by zipwitch on Friday November 20, 2015 @10:29PM (#10605417)
There is no evidence that the NSA is any good at its job. It ought to be eliminated. This is an easy decision, because its programs or odious or undemocratic, but because it is a useless waste of taxpayer money.
Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by aburan28 on Saturday November 21, 2015 @02:15AM (#10606036)
The Information Assurance Directorate is good at it's job, surely they shouldn't be eliminated
Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by jsprogrammer on Friday November 20, 2015 @07:17PM (#10604786)
Lie to Congress as a baseball player? Goto jail (in your house).

Lie to Congress as head of NSA? Retire?

Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by wavefunction on Friday November 20, 2015 @09:16PM (#10605214)
More like take those secrets developed with public money and turn it into a personal consulting firm complete with rubber-stamp from the NSA that you're not infringing "their" ip.
Re:File Says N.S.A. Found Way to Replace Email Surveillance ... by seesomesense on Friday November 20, 2015 @08:41PM (#10605097)
"Why can't we just trust the NSA?"

In that case, why not just trust Daesh ?