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Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by rlander on Friday November 20, 2015 @02:14PM (#10603188)
Kudos for the reboot. I haven't touched Drupal in maybe 7 years, but I gather it must be orders of magnitude easier now to develop a site with modern software engineering tools than it was then.

However, this reasoning feels wrong:

If we were to ignore these market forces, Drupal would be caught flat-footed and quickly become irrelevant.

Wordpress is still the same big ball of mud it was 10 years ago and it powers 1/4 of the internet.

Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by donutdan4114 on Friday November 20, 2015 @02:29PM (#10603283)
I would argue that Drupal's target is much different than Wordpress'. Yes, Drupal has a tiny bit of focus on small sites, but Drupal can't contend with Wordpress, not even close. Wordpress is much faster to setup and get a nice looking site up and running.

Where WP falls short is in the enterprise market, and this is where Drupal's ideal customer is. Drupal powers Tesla, Whitehouse.gov, Weather.com, Economist, NY.gov, and other major sites. So for Drupal to remain relevant to these types of clients it has had to play catchup. D7 changed a lot from it's initial release, and a lot of contrib modules helped make it a decent enterprise-level solution. But D8 is a whole new beast that really sets the bar pretty high. You can literally build anything in Drupal, and with it's new focus on having "headless" RESTful services, it can be used to power your entire content strategy (pushing content to apps, other sites, etc).

Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by zdw on Friday November 20, 2015 @02:46PM (#10603380)
> Wordpress is much faster to setup and get a nice looking site up and running.

I would argue that this is faster than most Wordpress setups:

    drush dl drupal
    drush si drupal ...
    drush en "name of theme"
Wordpress is easier to set up only for the "I still use tools from a decade or two ago" crowd.
Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by lucideer on Friday November 20, 2015 @04:49PM (#10604099)
The above three drush commands get a site technically functioning, but it's typically a long way off being a "nice site" or being "up and running" in the push to production sense.

WordPress's out-of-the-box post install experience is a lot nicer and a lot closer to being a "finished" and ready site.

Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by donutdan4114 on Friday November 20, 2015 @02:53PM (#10603420)
I mean, I don't just mean setting up a bare site. Between setting up content types, fields, putting in content, downloading additionally needed modules (which got better in D8 with Views/Twig/CKEditor in core), and how much custom theming has to go into a Drupal site, I feel like WP is generally much faster to deal with and has more beautiful themes/widgets that you can just plug n' play. However, I'm not an expert in WP dev. But I wouldn't recommend Drupal to a very small business that needs a basic site. For that I would recommend WP, squarespace, wix, or equivalent. I would only recommend Drupal if someone needed some enhanced functionality, in which case, Drupal is a great platform.
Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by butterfi on Friday November 20, 2015 @04:05PM (#10603874)
That's presuming they can have command line access and the tools/know how to install drush. I suspect a lot of WP installs start with a single click button on a graphic UI.
Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by anon6_ on Friday November 20, 2015 @04:27PM (#10603995)
Both have an easy CLI setup:

http://wp-cli.org/

There are solutions catering to SAAS/application-specific hosting for both. Wordpress.com / Drupal Gardens as well as containers and configurations scripts you can use to get a jump start.

Both have similar philosophies in the sense you can login and immediately start switching on modules/extensions you want to use. Both are CMS.

Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by lucideer on Friday November 20, 2015 @04:40PM (#10604060)
How much experience do you have using wp-cli? Drupal/drush are a long long way off perfect but comparing drush to wp-cli is apples and oranges.

wp-cli is extremely brittle even for very simple download+install, produces very poor defaults in terms of file/directory permissions and general on-filesystem stuff, and this is before you get into things like drush's many other functions for general admin or its extensibility.

That is not a criticism of wp-cli's developers though, as about 99.9% of its limitations are down to the Wordpress core team's complete disinterest in accommodating its functionality well or in providing a codebase that fits into a modern deployment setup in any reliable, well-considered way.

The work done on wp-cli is really commendable: it seems to be battling against quite a tide.

Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by zdw on Friday November 20, 2015 @02:27PM (#10603267)
> Wordpress is still the same big ball of mud it was 10 years ago and it powers 1/4 of the internet.

This is mainly because a front end developer can vomit into a PHP file and Wordpress will gladly display it.

Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by 0x4a42 on Friday November 20, 2015 @02:47PM (#10603389)
> This is mainly because a front end developer can vomit into a PHP file and Wordpress will gladly display it.

This made me laugh, but it's, alas, very true. In WP's ecosystem, the code you find in plugins, themes and WP itself will just makes your eyes bleed.

Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by huskyr on Friday November 20, 2015 @06:42PM (#10604624)
Very true indeed. I've done maintenance on a few WordPress sites and every time i opened up a new theme or plugin i thought "this can't possible be as worse as the last one." Boy, was i wrong.
Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by Scoundreller on Friday November 20, 2015 @05:44PM (#10604380)
While in Drupal, you'll get a white-screen-of-death that can be hard to back out of...
Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by Albright on Friday November 20, 2015 @11:23PM (#10605594)
Not if you don't have the stupid PHP filter installed (it was ripped out of core for the Drupal 8 release, praise be to the heavens; for those unfamiliar, it was basically <textarea> plus eval()) and you're using decent version control.
Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by snowwrestler on Friday November 20, 2015 @11:01PM (#10605522)
I can tell you from experience that WSOD is plenty achievable in Wordpress too.
Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by fungi on Friday November 20, 2015 @07:07PM (#10604741)
it's moving further up the chain. it is not hard to find a graphic designer who fancy themselves as wp experts because they can copy pasta css, install a module or two and ftp it to $3/mo shared hosting.

but honestly that is what many clients want, make it look pretty and don't bore me with your "best practice" and "you need to apply 12months worth of critical security patch's" mumbo jumbo.

Re:Drupal 8.0.0 released by jackbravo on Friday November 20, 2015 @07:02PM (#10604717)
The creator of ghost (the blogging platform) was a wordpress developer. He doesn't think that wordpress hasn't changed:

> http://john.onolan.org/project-ghost/