Gmail, We Need to Talk

Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by soneca on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @05:16PM (#10543013)

I'm sole responsible for acquisition on a startup and I solely (for now) use direct cold email (it is B2B, email sent to public adresses, so it is not spam).

I only use plain text emails. I don't even use email tracking so that hidden pixel doesn't trigger any annoying warning on the email client that ruins the experience.

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Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by PhilWright on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @05:34PM (#10543131)

Sending unsolicited email to public addresses in order to sell something is spam. Calling it 'cold email' to make it sound like a legitimate process does not change the fact you are spamming.

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Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by napoleond on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @07:07PM (#10543707)

That's not true, by either the letter of the law or the spirit of it. I own a business, and I post my email publicly because I want people to contact me. Some of those people will be selling me things--I want that! It's true that I end up with a lot of spam as a result, and that sucks, but it's better than never receiving unsolicited business email.

Sending unsolicited email to consumers is, indeed, spam. B2B is different.

EDIT: CANSPAM (US) is a bit ambiguous on this point. (Helpful blog post: http://customer.io/blog/Send-email-without-unsubscribe-link-...) CASL, its Canadian equivalent (I'm Canadian) is very clear on this point, though--unsolicited B2B to a publicly posted email address is a-ok, as long as it's not automated.

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Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by chinathrow on Wednesday November 11, 2015 @05:48AM (#10545938)

From that post - a gem:

"Just to be clear, you’re not allowed to use Customer.io to send cold emails.."

Guess why :)

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Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by betenoire on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @05:52PM (#10543237)

you may be right regarding definitions of spam, but as a user I treat relevant-and-targeted(-yet-unsolicited) emails very differently than I treat automated junk email.

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Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by soneca on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @06:15PM (#10543371)

I don't actually sell, as these business don't pay us anything. Rather they list they business on our website to their (and ours) value. Is it still spam? (honest question)

Edit: They are a business and have a "contact us" email on their website. Should I really not email them just because im not a customer, but a possible partner?

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Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by CamperBob2 on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @06:21PM (#10543403)

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative

Another way of phrasing your mother's advice: "What if everybody did X?"

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Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by mattm on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @07:39PM (#10543876)

This argument never holds up. Being a doctor or an engineer is almost always thought of as a good path. But what if everyone was a doctor or engineer? There'd be no one left to do basic tasks in life and the positions available for doctors and engineers would be so in demand that these people would work for very little.

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Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by CamperBob2 on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @08:10PM (#10544078)

Your point can be rephrased as, "What if everyone ignored the realities of the job market?" There's no danger that everyone will do that, so there's no need to use ethical or other philosophical arguments to discourage it.

On the other hand, spamming or otherwise misusing email to deliver your unsolicited "message" at everyone else's expense is a classic instance of the Tragedy of the Commons. There is no incentive for any individual actor to do the right thing. Kant's categorical imperative is one of several reasonable ways to think about it.

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Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by soneca on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @06:31PM (#10543489)

If everybody visited one of this business website, the server wouldnt support. Yet, it is ethical that anyone visit. And if only people that really have an interest on visiting it do it. No problems.

I think the same for the email. If,everybody who can make a legitimate business proposal email them, no problem. And I apply the same ethics when I had my own company with a public email on my website (now im an employee and emails dont get to me)

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Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by tajen on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @06:24PM (#10543433)

In some countries, business addresses aren't considered PII (private information). I, as a business, regularly get emails because of the Whois, as well as I receive letters which I dutifully send back to sender, but the law doesn't identify the latter as spam. Is it the case that emails to businesses aren't spam?

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Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by MagnumOpus on Wednesday November 11, 2015 @09:23AM (#10546774)

No. Not by the spirit on not by the letter of the definition. Spam is bulk mail, or otherwise annoying a whole group of people. Sending a targeted e-mail to a single person (even if unsolicited, even if commercial) is not spam.

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Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by rdancer on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @09:01PM (#10544314)

> Sending unsolicited email to public addresses in order to sell something is spam.

Only if it is sent in bulk.

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Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by dragonwriter on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @05:46PM (#10543195)

> it is B2B, email sent to public adresses, so it is not spam

Unsolicited commercial email is spam, regardless of whether it is B2B, and regardless of whether it is sent to "public addresses".

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Re:Gmail, We Need to Talk by chinathrow on Wednesday November 11, 2015 @05:02AM (#10545792)

> (it is B2B, email sent to public adresses, so it is not spam

Depends in which country you are in but in most EU countries, that is still spam and hence subject to legal action.

Edit: why the downvote? Care to explain your point?

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