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Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by narrator on Friday October 23, 2015 @01:38AM (#10436989)
Maybe I'm being cynical, but I'm expecting a day when all this security backfires and you have to throw out your computer when you get attacked by certain malware that gets inside of these trusted computing areas. The part about not being able to read certain memory areas, even with hardware access, is especially disturbing.
Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by pixelcort on Friday October 23, 2015 @02:12AM (#10437072)
We already have consoles, smart devices, etc that can sometimes get bricked, so we're already halfway there.
Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by TazeTSchnitzel on Friday October 23, 2015 @07:24AM (#10437902)
This is possible today with firmware rootkits.
Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by kevin_b_er on Friday October 23, 2015 @04:40PM (#10441177)
It isn't your computer anymore. The device no longer trusts YOU and will not obey you. It obeys its owners: The corporation that made it.

Therefor your point is moot. It isn't your device, so you aren't throwing out anything you own.

Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by venomsnake on Friday October 23, 2015 @02:13AM (#10437076)
It is all about DRM. Make no mistakes. They want to turn PC into Consoles. And the effort is underway.

Unless MS provide way to build and sign your copy of windows yourself. As with any other tech - the important thing is who holds the keys.

Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by mjg59 on Friday October 23, 2015 @03:41AM (#10437333)
The root of trust is in Secure Boot, and you have control of those keys. That means you maintain control of your machine - it's always possible for you to boot modified code that checks your signatures instead of any manufacturer's.
Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by vetinari on Friday October 23, 2015 @04:17AM (#10437422)
For PCs you do control MOKs, for now.

For mobile devices, or for devices like Chromebooks, you don't. It is only matter of time, until PCs change too, with apologies like 'nobody uses it anyway, why complicate things' etc. The frog must be boiled slowly, otherwise it backfires.

Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by mjg59 on Friday October 23, 2015 @04:45AM (#10437497)
Chromebooks are explicitly designed to permit re-keying, although it does require you to physically disassemble the machine[1]. And if anything, we're seeing more user-unlockable mobile devices now than we did in the past. At the high end, server vendors want to maintain control of their keys, and there are large companies who want to do the same for corporate desktops and laptops. At the current rate, the frog's going to die of old age before it notices anything.

[1] The reasons for this design choice are understandable, even if I disagree with them

Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by gsnedders on Friday October 23, 2015 @06:43AM (#10437790)
Not all Chromebooks require physical modification for re-keying. (The Dell Chromebook 11 doesn't, for example.)
Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by josteink on Friday October 23, 2015 @02:42AM (#10437157)
> As with any other tech - the important thing is who holds the keys.

I may not agree with your whole post, bit this is key.

It's about control of your own hardware and it's gradually being taken away. One piece at a time.

Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by pjmlp on Friday October 23, 2015 @04:25AM (#10437449)
That is what happens when freedom gets abused.
Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by Silhouette on Friday October 23, 2015 @08:18AM (#10438093)
Like the freedom to run my own choice of operating system?

Or the freedom to reset my device to a known-good state from read-only media so I know it's safe to use again after potentially being compromised through these slightly-too-clever new reprogrammable systems?

Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by pjmlp on Friday October 23, 2015 @11:34AM (#10439245)
No the freedom that any programm has full rights of $HOME, to access the network, to manipulate everything that the user under it runs also can.
Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by Silhouette on Friday October 23, 2015 @12:02PM (#10439449)
I don't see the connection.

Your point seems to be about the chosen operating software's security model. I agree that flexibility here is woefully lacking in all the major desktop OSes today.

However, the original concern in this case seems to be about being able to choose the basic operating software for the system itself, which is an orthogonal issue to the one you're raising as I understand your comment.

Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by pjmlp on Friday October 23, 2015 @01:14PM (#10439917)
The lack of security for major OSes and the exploits that were caused by the freedom to install software from any source, which lead to the said software being able to do anything in user's name, is what lead to solutions like application stores and things like SGX.

Because the average Joe and Jane users don't understand anything about security, and prefer to loose freedom than having their computer exploited.

Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by Silhouette on Friday October 23, 2015 @02:29PM (#10440398)
But the modern measures about locking down the hardware itself, which are the subject of this discussion, have nothing to do with app sandboxing and app stores...
Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by venomsnake on Friday October 23, 2015 @05:27AM (#10437600)
Which freedom exactly was abused?

Edit: also if something can be abused it is not a freedom but a granted temporary privilege.

Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by pjmlp on Friday October 23, 2015 @11:31AM (#10439220)
To run software with full rights of $HOME or similar, acess the network and manipulate PC contents without the user knowing about it.
Re:How Windows 10 Rewrites OS Architecture: Battle of SKM an... by keyboardwarrior on Friday October 23, 2015 @04:24AM (#10437447)
Lets not fool ourselves into thinking this is about security. We are talking about microsoft here.

its not like they would ever break anti-trust...