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Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by patio11 on Sunday January 10, 2010 @06:23AM (#1042946)
I'm torn. On the one hand, it clearly succeeded as a publicity stunt.

On the other hand, in terms of discovering what users will pay for Creately, the experiment was a failure. By essentially structuring the system as "donate us money", you prime the users to think "Hmm, even $1 is being generous to them. I'm a big spender... I'll go as high as $3." That is, ahem, an insane price point for any service.

You have to convince someone to dig out their credit card to pay you money. There is essentially no differentiation between $3 and $9 at that point, since neither amount is an appreciable amount of money to working professionals. (Students are another case. Since they're going to complain long and loudly about being made to pay, and are going to do their level best to steal your service anyhow, I think you can quite rationally make the decision just not seek their custom. Alternatively, you can segment your plans such that one which is free but helps your marketing meets their needs.) There are tremendous advantages to the business, however, from moving from $3 to $9. (Revenues net of Paypal fees just increased by a factor of four.)

Note that $9 is still VERY VERY cheap. The fully loaded cost of a professional exceeds that for every ten minutes. Also, if you look at any SAAS business they'll tend to tell you the same thing: the most expensive plan, which is typically bought by employed professionals spending other people's money, brings in more revenue than any other plan. This has been mentioned by Wufoo in interviews, it was true of DropSend when they published their numbers, and I know it to be true of three other companies who have not given me explicit permission to make the fact known.

Additionally, as Creately noticed, the kind of people who are attracted by "This only costs a buck!" are the worst customers in the known universe. They cause hugely disproportionate loads on your support resources, and feel entitled to do so because they're Paying Good Money For This, Damn It. They tend to churn like crazy. They'll fail at the most trivial of tasks (like typing in their credit card details) and then blame you for it. (When you spend a buck on something, if something goes wrong it is the merchants fault, the lazy bum. When you spend hundreds on something, you darn well check to make sure it went through alright.)

Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by jacquesm on Sunday January 10, 2010 @08:15AM (#1043027)
The payment method matters a lot too, paypal and credit cards are for practical purposes unusable for services under $2 / month, you'd have to charge for a year in one go, and annual renewal rates are terrible, they're much worse than $5 / month because people will no longer remember what that charge was for and they'll cancel, or worse, they'll charge back and it'll cost you more than you made in the whole year ($25 chargeback penalty, even if it isn't your fault), not to mention a hit on your chargeback record which could at some point cost you your merchant account (usually a 1.5% limit on chargebacks).

$10 (or $9.95) is where the game really starts, less than that is really only to get people to subscribe for trial purposes for 3-10 days with an automatic up-sell to the full rate if they don't cancel.

That's a tried-and-true scheme and it is good for a very large portion of all online revenues on services.

The biggest problem - and you address that somewhat in your last paragraph - is that people that pay $1 feel just as entitled (or even more in some cases) to your premium support time, because, after all they are now a paying member, they intend to get their moneys' worth.

On a $1 charge you can afford support on roughly 1 in 50 customers, it had better be a very quick to resolve issue.

Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by petercooper on Sunday January 10, 2010 @05:15PM (#1043773)
You have to convince someone to dig out their credit card to pay you money. There is essentially no differentiation between $3 and $9 at that point, since neither amount is an appreciable amount of money to working professionals.

For a once-off purchase, I totally agree. For a subscription, there's a big difference there.

I know not everyone's like me but I tend to calculate the annual price for subscriptions I have. So even though I almost never use it now, paying $1.99 to the Problogger forum is no big deal. But $9.99? That'd be a $23.88 vs $119.88 - a pretty wide gap. There are lots of things I wouldn't spend $9.99 a month on something that I'd spend $4.99 a month on.. a flowcharting app might well be one of those things.

Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by prakster on Sunday January 10, 2010 @02:30PM (#1043506)
Did you consider "Free" as ONE OF the amounts in the field? That could conceivably have given you the extent of the gap between "Free" and "Paid" for your product. You could have used the data to figure out your the correct price points.

I'm sure most hackers in this discussion have heard of the famous article by Fred Wilson 3 years ago, but here it is anyway: http://redeye.firstround.com/2007/03/the_first_penny.html

Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by k7d on Sunday January 10, 2010 @07:37AM (#1042999)
I tend to agree that this is useless in terms of figuring out the right price point. It may also have a kind of psychological devaluation effect on the service.

As a publicity stunt, it makes sense. Although it would make much more sense for an already well known entity to stir things up a bit (just like Radiohead did with their album).

Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by thegeekster on Sunday January 10, 2010 @06:30AM (#1042948)
Perhaps now that we are moving into an age of micropayments the smaller dollar amounts have regained their separation. i.e. a buck vs a fiver.
Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by patio11 on Sunday January 10, 2010 @06:39AM (#1042955)
I understand how someone typing a blog post on their $2,000 Mac while listening to music on their $300 iPod could perhaps think that we are moving into a new age of micropayments because he paid $1 for a fart app on the the $600 iPhone in the pocket of his $100 jeans, but I don't agree with him.
Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by ohashi on Sunday January 10, 2010 @07:24AM (#1042982)
But those are physical products and these are virtual services. In the user's mind there is (or starting to be?) a huge distinction between the two. I am not saying it's right or wrong, but would you agree you see a distinction?
Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by potatolicious on Sunday January 10, 2010 @07:34AM (#1042994)
"In the user's mind there is (or starting to be?) a huge distinction between the two."

Actually, I'd venture to say that the distinction between the two is shrinking, and will continue to do so in the future.

Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by ohashi on Sunday January 10, 2010 @08:55AM (#1043063)
Why do you think that?
Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by jackowayed on Sunday January 10, 2010 @12:15PM (#1043306)
Because if you go back, say, 20 years, no one would pay anything that wasn't physical. It just didn't make sense to people back then. There was no reason to.

Now computers are so ubiquitous and powerful that people pay for "virtual" things all the time. They pay to download that song off of iTunes. They pay to download that iPhone app. Hell, they pay for "land" in Second Life and "money" in Farmville.

Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by ohashi on Sunday January 10, 2010 @02:38PM (#1043517)
That doesn't mean they see real products and virtual products as equal. It is simply acknowledging that virtual products exist.
Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by jackowayed on Sunday January 10, 2010 @02:44PM (#1043526)
I wasn't saying they see them as equal. I'm saying they see them as more equal than they did when virtual products were seen as totally worthless.
Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by ohashi on Sunday January 10, 2010 @09:34PM (#1044163)
I see your point, I would counter that users almost expect everything for free these days and getting them to pay is harder than it was before, but easier than originally?
Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by gills on Sunday January 10, 2010 @05:13PM (#1043767)
heh...your description of the emo mac dude gave me a laugh, thanks.

I'm curious how the same individual might value a subscription to "trendy $100 jeans...as a service", both in utility and price? I think it's been tried with luxury handbags for about $50/month, but I'm too lazy to look up what happened to that business (and my battery is at 3% so I can't look right now).

Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by aaronbrethorst on Sunday January 10, 2010 @07:21PM (#1043960)
For starters, $100 jeans are on the low-to-mid-range end of the denim market.

$20'ish - el cheapo house brands at Target, Walmart, etc.

<$50'ish - Gap, Levi Strauss

<$100'ish - Lucky

<$200'ish - Diesel, Seven for All Mankind

~$500 - Prada, etc.

If you think about what Avelle provides (LHaaS), it's a way for women to accessorize themselves for a big night out in a way far outside of their typical budget. That super-trendy, $1000 Fendi bag won't lend itself well to everyday usage for most people. Those $200 jeans, on the other hand, cannot and will not be worn for that Big Event.

Imagine you're going to a cocktail party with a bunch of big-time politicos. If you're a woman, you might rent that Fendi bag from Avelle. No one in their right mind would say to themselves, 'hey, I'll go rent some trendy jeans for tonight's black tie event.'

A serious online competitor to those god-awful tux rental shops could be cool, though.

Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by whatusername on Sunday January 10, 2010 @05:46PM (#1043818)
http://www.bagborroworsteal.com

Seems to have been re-branded as Avelle.

Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by jacquesm on Sunday January 10, 2010 @08:23AM (#1043029)
Micropayments have been implemented many times in the past but to date nobody has really made a go of it.

There are several reasons for this:

Micropayment services tend to be wallet oriented, pre-paid and therefore there exists no direct relationship between the merchant and the customer. This relationship is a very important component for the merchant.

Micropayment services tend to suffer from a chicken-and-the-egg issue, if not enough sites use a common system then why would a consumer put their money in to that particular wallet.

To date, in spite of many 10's of millions of investment money sunk in micropayment systems there has never been a clear winner, the minimum charge seems to be stuck at roughly $.80 which is way too high to qualify as a micropayment, and a merchant would only see a very small fraction of that.

To really function a micropayment system would have to be able to seamlessly charge sub-cent amounts and put the majority of that in to the hands of the merchant within two weeks of incurring the charge.

Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by patio11 on Sunday January 10, 2010 @08:32AM (#1043037)
This is going a bit off topic, but AdWords is the world's best micropayment solution, and probably killed the need for all others:

+ It is economical as low as 3 cents an action.

+ It solved the "Customers hate to make micropurchasing decisions" by moving the payment from the end-user to a business which gets to automate the micropurchasing.

+ The micropurchases are actually billed macro-scale, so it works on top of our existing payment infrastructure without too many hassles.

+ You can deploy it anywhere in the world for trivial levels of integration work. (That won't maximize income by a long shot, but you'll start accruing earnings with a quick copy/paste.)

+ It is almost totally resistant to "steal the content and repost to avoid the pay wall"... well, when it doesn't pay for people to steal the content, but that is another discussion altogether...

Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by jacquesm on Sunday January 10, 2010 @08:40AM (#1043044)
That's a really interesting viewpoint, I have never seen that articulated before, thank you.

You are probably right that adwords / adsense obviates the need for many micropayments, but to truly become a micropayment worthy system there would have to be a much larger degree of transparency.

Basically right now you have to assume the middle man isn't taking advantage of your not knowing how much is being paid for your inventory and that is a thing that people are not happy about in general.

Re:How much to charge for your Web App? by tezza on Sunday January 10, 2010 @11:28AM (#1043237)
Aren't all the payments to Google from your account?

The end user doesn't fork any dosh, and you don't get anything unless you're get a slice of a corporate adwords referreral program.

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Maybe if the Newscorp paywall takes hold (the egg in chicken'n'egg) then Newscorp could institute a micropayment service 3rd party people (us/we) could use.

Newscorp might like a 0.1% tariff on all micropayments, and if there is one person who could take on Visa/Mastercard it is Rupert Murdoch